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A board game of cooperative card-driven tactical combat in a persistent, ever-changing campaign world. 1-4 players, 30 min. per player.
A board game of cooperative card-driven tactical combat in a persistent, ever-changing campaign world. 1-4 players, 30 min. per player.
4,904 backers pledged $386,104 to help bring this project to life.

The Work Continues: Post-Kickstarter week 18

Posted by Isaac Childres (Creator)

Hello residents of Gloomhaven!

I was hoping to come to you this week with pictures of a white box sample of the game. It thankfully made its way out of China before the New Year holiday began, but unfortunately it hasn't arrived at my doorstep yet. I'm sure it will soon.

What has arrived at my doorstep, though, is some soft plastic samples from the factory - not the actual Gloomhaven miniatures, but some other plastic models that demonstrate a great amount of detail in the material, so I am pretty optimistic moving forward with the miniature production at this point. It's looking great.

Everything else seems to be moving in a good direction as well. There's not a whole lot of sleep to be found these days, but the project is finally starting to feel like it's coming together.

We've made a lot of progress on refining the rule book and getting it designed on the page. It's a long process, but once we have a good-looking draft, I'll be sure to share it with you all to get your comments on it as well.

Progress continues on the scenario creation and art fronts, as well. Alexandr should be finished with the last of the item art soon.

There's not a whole lot more to say, but I did want to share with you a bit of bad news this week, as well. I've decided that I just don't have time to add the player versus player mode to the game like I had promised during the campaign.

Of course, there's always the option to just throw something in haphazardly and call it good, but I want everything included in the game to be great, and it's just not in the schedule to fully play test characte- on-character combat and balance all the classes for that purpose.

I thought it could work, but I've decided there are more important aspects of the game to focus on. I don't know if player versus player combat was a big selling point for anyone, but if you don't feel as though Gloomhaven is desirable enough without it, I understand. Feel free to send me a message through Kickstarter and I'll be happy to refund your pledge.

And on that note, it is back to work for me! I'll see you next week with pictures of the white box sample!

Travis, Kirk Brownridge, and 70 more people like this update.


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    1. Missing avatar

      aredash on

      Definitely agree with Ravendas in that somebody at BGG will figure something out. I backed this game for its co-op legacy style story driven RPG mechanics than anything else. I am 99% sure PvP would never have made it to our table anyway (still playing mage knight co-op only). We have plenty of other games that fit that into that niche. Thanks for the update!

    2. Ravendas on

      Sounds good to me. I figured any sort of balancing for PVP might be at the cost of the 'actual' game.

      For those that want it, someone will have some method of running it up on BGG not long after the game is released, I'm sure.

    3. Missing avatar

      Charlotte on

      I also didn't realise there was even a PvP planned -- I backed this purely for the cooperative dungeon crawl experience and probably wouldn't have played PvP anyways.
      Having a variant on BGG later can't hurt, of course.
      I'm looking forward to getting Gloomhaven in summer!

    4. Nakano

      Versus Mode was interesting idea, but don't know if I would have played it. Regarding possible expansion, I would wish it had semi-coop elements. Battle Star: Galactica is one of my favorite semi-coop games; Castle of Camelot is also a good one even if the one time we played no one was the traitor (we still suspected each other). Don't know in what form semi-coop would best work in Gloomhaven though: A possibility that one of your members want all the gold and leave you rotting in the dungeon :) Or maybe a hidden voting system in events result similar to BSG voting.

    5. Kristian Törnkvist

      There is always a place for PvP in the upcoming expansion that will surely follow this great success :)

    6. Brad Vomocil

      Just wanted to stop by to say No Worries about the no PvP stuff! That's really not what this game was about and, frankly, we wouldn't have ever played by those rules in my groups anyway. We've got way too many girlfriends in the group for PvP play, hahaha!

    7. Aaron Belmer on

      Yeah I'm fine with no pvp, I forgot as well it was even in there. I don't think you could I've worded this communication about it more perfectly.

    8. Missing avatar

      Kris Thompson on

      I am entirely interested in this game for the co-op adventuring, so this doesn't diminish my enthusiasm in the slightest. Plus, if people really want PvP, they can always houserule something. The magic of tabletop gaming!

    9. Jeremy Kaemmer on

      I really liked the idea of PvP but I'm ok if it doesn't make it in the box. If its just an official Pdf file sent via email and/or posted on BGG at a later date, I'd much prefer that than not at all.

    10. aron aka jello on

      @ Josh & Isaac - That was my thought as well.. since PvP is only a rule set that's something that could absolutely be worked on during the gap between sending off the final files and the boxes actually hitting backers.

    11. Kyle Schleich

      Pvp is irrelevant to me so no worries there. keep on trucking!

    12. Missing avatar


      Thanks for the update! PvP was a neat idea, but I doubt I ever would have gotten around to playing it anyway. It sounds like the core game will have more than enough content to keep us all entertained for a good long while.

    13. Duncan A. Doherty

      For those that don't remember, PvP was talked about in Update #11 (from Sept. 11th post), and was going to be more of an arena brawl for characters to knock each other about, completely separate from the main game. In essence, its' exclusion will affect nothing, and I stand by my earlier statement.

    14. Missing avatar

      jerold wallis on

      I didn't recall there was a PvP mode. But you could let the users balance the characters with a bidding process, as part of the game. For example, in PvP mode between 2 players, 3 characters are placed out, and the players bid for 1st choice of picking a character first using "healing potions". Bidded healing potions go to the other player. So if I win the bid with 3 healing potions, then I get to pick first (from the 3 characters), but the other player starts the game with 3 healing potions. After 4 potions, the next bid could be a +1 magic weapon. So if I really wanted to be able to pick that troll, my opponent would be very well equipped indeed . . .

      Just a thought.

    15. Adam West on

      Very happy to be a backer of this game. Thanks for the regular updates, Isaac. I can tell you are putting quite a bit of thought and care into the game. Well done.

    16. GeneralGrundmann on

      There was a PvP part? ;-)

      Useless, throw it away and focus on the main game. :-)

      Save the idea for another Kickstarter:

      "Gloomhaven: Team battles in dungeons of doom, darkness and despair for 2-6 players!"


    17. Missing avatar

      Philippe Proteau

      Well, at last you haven't totally abandoned the PvP. You just postponed it for after the production of the game.

      It is after all a huge undertaking. I have a feeling that GH is even bigger than Forge War. So, postponing the creation of a component that is not part of the core of the game but was actually grafted on top, I have no issues. That way, it will relieve some of the pressures on you and it will allow you to spend the appropriate time needed to get the PvP right. :D


      disclaimer: I was not a backer for the PvP. ;)

    18. Jasen Jones on

      +1 to pretty much every post so far. I was never going to play PVP even if it was included.

    19. Jordann Gross @woardgamegeeks

      Glad you made this decision for the better.
      Don't really see how you can add it later, since you say you don't have the time to balance the characters for PvP. I would say the balancing is the majority of work, compared to the change in play mechanics.
      Anyway, keep going dude, I'd rather even have the project delayed by a few months, than you rushing to get stuff finished. Quality without compromise! :D

    20. Jedra7609

      I didn't even know there was a PvP element planned. I'll be playing this solo most of the time anyway, so it doesn't bother me.

      Thanks for the update - much appreciated.

    21. Dagda

      I wasn't interested in pvp anyway, so no harm done for me. As long as the rest is as awesome as I hope it to be. :D

    22. Kirkstarter

      +1 chang

      @Isaac - you did really handle this well. The offer for a refund for those that might believe the game will suffer for the lack of PvP (it won't) is up-front, honest, and respectable. Too often these things just get pulled or dropped with nothing but an insincere "sorry." You justified your decision and stood behind your commitment to the project. Thank you. Makes me proud to have backed your campaign.

      I'm in for the long haul!

    23. Jardanes

      For me no problem on the PvP. It can be added o "Gloomhaven 2:The Empire strikes back" or in "Gloomhaven 3: At the world's end" or even in "Gloomhaven and the Kingdom of the crystal skull"...

    24. Gary Kressner on

      With respect to pvp gamers, I can appreciate their appetites for wanting every game to be a competition; However, Gloomhaven at its core seems designed to reflect the more cooperative challenge of survival and exploration of the deadly unknown - and the more complex tactical combat involved in overcoming a scaled difficulty environment... Something more akin to the deeper experience of a roleplaying game, than the one-on-one contests most competive games offer - where exploration and questing quickly become irrelevant. In contrast, these elements seem to be at the core of what Gloomhaven is all about. I'm not saying there is no place for pvp, but maybe as an expansion project of its own would achieve a better result for both camps.

    25. Missing avatar

      Frdderik Beeckx on

      Can't say i'm not a tiny bit dissapointed, but if this decision improves the core game, i support it... Keep up the good work!

    26. Gideon Scott on

      WHAT?! Does this mean we won't be getting the Casino location, ten-pin bowling mminigame or Cragheart pyjamas, either? /s

      Keep up the good work Isaac. Anything you think will get us a great game in a timely fashion is a-okay.

    27. Caleb Kester on

      Focus on the core game. We need this game to be solid. Then once you see how sales rise for it work on an official pvp varient to post on BGG or include it in the next expansion :)

    28. Heath'n Jr

      I'm In agreement with the majority here, It doesn't need to be in the core game. I wasn't planning on using it, But if you posted it sometime later on BGG it would be fine. OR Not.

      Your doing Excellent work now don't let this hinder you in anyway. WE can wait there's
      plenty of Exploring to be done, we shouldn't need to fight amongst ourselves.

    29. gatherer818

      I hope the PvP mode will come eventually, as the "play anyway you like" nature was what drew me to back in the first place (PvP, coop, solo, w/e). But I certainly don't have a problem with it waiting until later - if it's not a core part of the game, let it wait. Make the core game amazing and the rest will fall into place. ^_^

    30. Duncan A. Doherty

      Honestly, I had forgotten that there was even a "Vs Mode" in the works in the first place. I won't miss it, and I doubt its' exclusion will make anyone jump ship. Still, as Josh N. said, you could always put it up on BGG or some such as a variant later down the road, if you desire.

    31. Isaac Childres 4-time creator on

      Yes, Josh, this was my thought. I will probably post some stuff on BGG at some point, but currently it is not refined enough to include in the game.

    32. Josh N. on

      The PvP mode wasn't a selling point for me regardless, and I don't think I would have played it anyway.

      Furthermore, I feel like PvP rules could also be added as a variant on BGG, whether by you or fans of the game. This would also allow it to be worked on while everything is being put together/packed/shipped (if you decide to do it later).

    33. ionas on

      Please add any kind of competitive elements like promise! I can wait. NP

    34. chang on

      yay!! white box soon :)

      and that us so professional of you about PvP (some companies really shoukd learn from you).. im not here for PvP so no problem for me, hope is ok for most

      cheers till next week :)