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A special RPG in which you assemble your team, build and manage your base, collect resources, and survive in a post-apocalyptic world
3,535 backers pledged $121,096 to help bring this project to life.

Changes, test and modding

Hey guys,

About the changes we made to FF: There had been questions and concerns regarding the changes to the game. And we think it is necessary to clarify it.

First of all, the biggest change is the change of perspective from top-down to third person view which happened several months ago. And the reasons for the change are:

1. Realistic combat experience.

2. Better view on distant objects, and much better view on the whole wolrd.

3. Easier for the player to spot and pick up smaller objects, such as a piece of bread.

4. Easier to monitor enemy movement at long distance.

5. Enables the use of binocle, scope..

6. Better shooting experience. Easier to aim the target, especially at long distance.

7. Tactical combat in complex environment(You can't see what is on the other side of a mountain, etc)

We agree that the changes can be too much that it breaches the original. But it is not that hard to include the original style(top-down) as an option. FF is designed adapt modifications which means it is relatively easy to add, remove and modify contents of the game. And we are willing to make necessary modifications for the sake of good gameplay.

The core gameplay is never changed. FF is a squad based survival RPG which emphasize the importance of base operation. The making of FF requires a lot of time and thinking because it is an attempt to mix different genres, which is really difficult to be done right. So it is highly likely that our tiny dev team of five will face a lot of difficulties. Sincere apologise if we had been less responsive after the kickstarter campaign. And many thanks to the backers who are still with us.  

Beta Test

We spent the last 8 months designing the system and making vital resources. Now the core system coding is 70% done and what we have now is a highly dynamic world with weathers, dynamic factions, resources, npcs, faction wars, zombie attacks...And the base building function is there, but it is not that important to the gameplay at this stage(This is what we are going to focus right away). We will upload the beta test soon and will inform the testers through private channel(Note: This is a private test and only $25 + backers will be qualified as testers).

Modding

We were thinking about modding and we all agree that it is important to game like FF. And we have been experimenting with custom editors such as this simple event editor we used to make missions and cut scenes. Tools like this may be released to the players in the future.

FF

  • Image 311741 original

Comments

    1. Creator Paul Grimes on September 9, 2013

      I have to agree with some of the previous comments, the hook that got me to back the project was the uniqueness of a post-apocalyptic top down base and squad rts management aspect of the game. I really hope this won’t be lost in the final product as from what I have seen to date looked really good and there are plenty of shooters on the market already. I guess Ill cross my finger and wait and see what the final looks like.

    2. Creator Roq on August 23, 2013

      Listening to backers is good, but go with your vision as to what will make the best game and don't release it until it is ready. If you are behind schedule, well that's just normality for any ambitious project.

    3. Creator John Nordh on August 21, 2013

      That base-building should be top-down is a no-brainer, it never occured to me that you might have considered making that 3rd person only, that would have been terrible, I think. :) However, don't just make combat 3rd person, I think some of us might enjoy exploration in 3rd person (or even 1st person). In fact I think beeing able to switch between top down and 1st or 3rd person would be a really neat feature, how many games has that. (Could be added later, post-release, if you want to cut down on features to get the game out faster.)

    4. Creator Blake on August 21, 2013

      PP, thanks for letting us know. I'm glad to hear that the top-down view will be the main view, but am also excited that we'll be able to switch to 3rd person when we want to. Right now, I'm thinking I'll probably spend most of my planning/base building/strategizing time in the top-down view, and then walk around in 3rd person during the down time/scouting missions (get to see the scenery/interact with my team).
      I'm sure you guys know this, but make sure you're constantly (weekly, twice a month, etc?) prioritizing what to work on. Build the core game, then make it better. :)
      We're still with you guys, keep up the good work. Am definitely looking forward to this game!

    5. Creator dutt on August 21, 2013

      I appreciate the feedback, but I think that if you haven't got the basics down time, and therefore money, would be better spent on the foundation instead of optional parts that not everybody will be using.

    6. Creator Photon Productions on August 20, 2013

      Thanks, we respect our backers a lot and really believe in this project. Our team strength may forbid us making everything smooth but we have faith in making it better and better, thanks to the failures and lessons. Moving forward.

    7. Creator Knight Lord Marius on August 20, 2013

      Thanks very much Haoran you made a good choice here! I hope to still try the beta and give you as much input as possible, even if I was harsh I am still your friend and we respect you and your team a lot we won't begrudge you for taking more time to make the game, but changing it we would not accept.

    8. Creator Aysir on August 20, 2013

      I think this is still looking promising. I have no problem with the camera shift - especially as its constantly touted as an option (I'm guessing this works something like DragonAge: Origins on PC or Neverwinter Nights 2, where the player could choose over the shoulder or top-down) Looking forward to the beta.

    9. Creator Photon Productions on August 20, 2013

      Guys. First of all, thanks for all the comments.
      We are not going to make another game, we are trying to be as consistent to the original as possible. We made mistakes, a lot of them I am sure. Because to make an innovative project requires constant trying, failure and redo...Now we understand your points and we only include third person as an option during combat. The main gameplay will take place in top-down view. (click and go, same as original).

      From the progress so far, we have only managed to get the core system and resources done. We haven't been able to get into gameplay and balance so much. So it is not late for backers and devs to sit down and talk about the next step. The development of FF will take much longer than we thought. But in order to really polish the game, that extra time is needed.

      Helping us get rid of errors is much appretiated and we hope everyone is aiming at making the game better.

      PP

    10. Creator Michael Caldwell on August 20, 2013

      For the most part, I agree with dutt. But I would like to hear more from the developers. How will this perspective affect base management? Would you classify this now as a shooter vs tactical RPG? It's my fault for not paying much attention to the development process and realizing a big change was made. Remember, though, folks that do not like something are far more likely to be vocal, so you probably still have supporters. That being said, I've lost a lot of interest in this game. Why play this, when I can go play Fallout 3? That is what this game resembles, almost completely. I don't want Fallout 3. Now, if this was (for comparison sake only) more like Fallout Tactics, i would be alllllll over it. Which, honestly, is a lot of what this game resembled when first presented.

      Big question: combat. Is it stats based, or twitch based? Was it EVER stats based?

    11. Creator dutt on August 20, 2013

      "1. Realistic combat experience."
      I'm honestly not sure in what way making it 3rd person would make it more realistic.

      "2. Better view on distant objects, and much better view on the whole wolrd."
      It's just a different perspective closer to the ground.

      "3. Easier for the player to spot and pick up smaller objects, such as a piece of bread."
      Or you could have them marked, or automatic pickup by squad members of useful items.

      "4. Easier to monitor enemy movement at long distance."
      Minimap.

      "5. Enables the use of binocle, scope.."
      I want my squad members to use scopes to aim better. I don't want to use a scope to see further.

      "6. Better shooting experience. Easier to aim the target, especially at long distance."
      I want my squad members to aim and shoot. I don't want to aim and shoot.

      "7. Tactical combat in complex environment(You can't see what is on the other side of a mountain, etc) "
      There's a rather new phenomena, "fog of war". It's been around since...1993 or something like that.

      Please stop putting first person/3rd person/shooter-parts into the game. Preferably yesterday. I don't see how those claims are relevant to the game I paid to support development of and if you keep this shooter-direction I'm not interested in playing it. There are 2489132058970435 shooters out there. please stop making another one.

    12. Creator Michael Caldwell on August 20, 2013

      Base management/construction in 3rd person is quite annoying. If the base screen were to remain isometric and the combat was 3rd person, I would be ok with that; not excited, but it would still be focused on base management. I'm curious why this change, though? The reasons provided do not make any sense when you consider the original scope of the game. From an art perspective, I can see the creators being able to do more in a 3rd person setting....but gameplay-wise, we have fallout 3 mixed with mass effect with base management mixed in.....which sounds not at all fun to me.

    13. Creator BeCause on August 20, 2013

      If you want to keep FF as a 3rd person, then I want my money back. I don't appreciate getting jerked around like this. BTW, the reasons you listed for changing, are not desired by those who buy into the niche that the game was marketed toward.

    14. Creator Knight Lord Marius on August 20, 2013

      Photon Productions you guys could learn a lot from Fallout Tactics a great tactical rpg :)

    15. Creator Knight Lord Marius on August 20, 2013

      @Light487 Exactly my point, why would you reliably trust your developers if they change the vision of the project later in the development stage. Its not really about the game any more though as a game it would have been extraordinary now its shaping into something bland and unimaginative.
      Again I welcome you all to post in the forum and the original video of the game. Links below in that order.
      http://forsakenfortress.boards.net/post/753/quote/111…
      http://www.youtube.com/watch…

    16. Creator light487 - Kickstarter Junkie on August 20, 2013

      "Base Management" should be the first priority for gameplay.. all the other stuff is secondary. There's a game called Recettear's: An Item Shop Tale as an exmaple.. the core gameplay is about management of the shop.. not going to the dungeon and fighting things. However, you can go to the dungeon to fight things and get free items as loot etc.. but that is not the core gameplay mechanic....

      This is the same as here.. base management and sims-like people management is what was advertised and promised, should we back the project, with secondary gameplay in the form of RTS style combat.. if you had advertised the game in the form it is currently shaping, I would not have backed it as many have... you've taken the money and not only changed the gameplay but forced your own agenda on us...

    17. Creator Some Guy on August 20, 2013

      Just use the tab key to highlight objects that can be picked up or used.

    18. Creator Some Guy on August 20, 2013

      Ugh. Thought this was going to be unique and interesting now it's another Mass Effect. I'm not sure how this base management/building is going to work now. Is it going to go to top down or isometric for that? How about squad management? Or the whole thing as one char? Or can you move from/take control of different ones at any time. I am not liking this at all. Where's a refund button?

    19. Creator NobleHelium on August 19, 2013

      I must agree that I would very much prefer to play the game with a top-down perspective. If you are making it available as an option, then I have no complaints.

    20. Creator Ophryon on August 19, 2013

      Developers: please be aware that some gamers are physically unable to play third person viewpoint due to motion sickness. Top-down was a major reason I chose to back the game. I would prefer it were restored and support the solution of being able to scroll the viewpoint easily between the two extremes as needed.

    21. Creator Knight Lord Marius on August 19, 2013

      You know what is far far worse the original game play video is still up on their home page, so any one looking forward to it being a top down rts rpg hybrid will be VERY disappointed indeed.
      And so I say R.I.P. original game, and good bye new shooter FF. They killed a good game before it had a chance to live and basically made company suicide too, 2 things you NEVER do as a company change the nature of a product you envisioned and promised your fans, not ask them about it before making the change.

      They also dumbed down the forum to, I cant take that I started a thread where every backer can complain about the changes http://forsakenfortress.boards.net/thread/111/recent-update.

      Also here is the original gameplay of the game on youtube go there and post your complaints to please http://www.youtube.com/watch…

    22. Creator Basil Yong Wei Hee on August 19, 2013

      However one coins the term, third person shooter, third person rpg etc, I have to disagree that gameplay would be the same as promised regardless it being third person or topdown.
      A games perspective in itself fundamentally changes how a game is played and also determines how effective certain game features work. For one I can never actually aim at a particular target with a scope in topdown view as is also true that I can never effectively have situational awareness of my squadmates and effectively give them detailed commands/actions to do in third person as compared if it was in top down.

    23. Creator Shane Schrupp on August 19, 2013

      @John Nordh I totally agree. I don't see anywhere where they say it's now a third person shooter. It only says instead of looking top down, you're now looking from a third person perspective. Everything else about the game that they've promised can still be made to work without turning it into a third person shooter.

    24. Creator daquack on August 19, 2013

      i agree that 3rd person will make targeting potentially much easier and noticing things etc..

      i really like the top down view and was one of the reasons I backed this. If during the game i can zoom out to a top down view then zoom back into to 3rd person when combat starts or its most useful that would be awesome then people could play in which ever of the two modes they prefer.

      otherwise an option to play in top down or 3rd person is a second choice.

      looking forward to the game.

    25. Creator John Nordh on August 19, 2013

      In any case, they say that it wouldn't be too hard to include top-down as an option, so I think we can expect that.

    26. Creator John Nordh on August 19, 2013

      I wonder to what extent people are just reacting to the phrase "third person shooter", rather than thinking about what the third person perspective would mean in this game. The game is mostly the same; you're still building a base, gather resources, exploring, managing the characters and relations etc. There might be some third person shooting but that doesn't make it a third person shooter anymore than a few character building elements make an FPS an RPG.

    27. Creator Björn Fallqvist on August 19, 2013

      I am very disappointed by the change to third-person perspective. One of the reasons I backed was because it was supposed to be top-down view.

    28. Creator Basil Yong Wei Hee on August 19, 2013

      I think to get a better understanding on their development process, have a look at their forum

      http://forsakenfortress.boards.net/

      and you see some topics that in the earlier parts were getting the game done in top down but along the line somehow shifted gear to third person. There is one posted by the moderator 'Do you want an ironman mode?'. Now as someone who has played the likes of XCom, you may find this mode familiar and catered for a tactical topdown game. There are other instance in the forum that, for me, in my view, seem to point to a game development process aimed at pleasing everyone and thus coming up with a mix and match of features that doesnt seem to gel right and falling short....my view. Have a look and decide for yourself if this is the case.

      Now that being said and done, I like third persons like any other like any other guy/gal. My concern comes in 2 parts.

      Firstly, It was not what was pitched originally. The basis of me backing this game was the impression, based on the pitch, that it would be a top down tactical rpg. Some may say, I'm being a stiff neck and should embrace the the fluidness of the design process. Hey by all means, just dont promise something and later go back on it ( a mod to enable top-down is not the same cos it feels like it was just pinned on the game and not designed around it). Would you promise butter and later deliver peanut butter (what would happened to those ordered butter who were allergic to peanuts).

      Secondly, based on experience (software development) when any type of development start with with a set design goal and all of a sudden this design goals change in midstream, you can bet that things are going to be as confusing for the development team. Most cases, by then, any self respecting software developer would toss everything out of the door and begin from scratch especially so with such a major game play mechanic change. This in itself would result in delays and extra cost. If one were to take the shortcut and just continue development with what they have and adapt to the new game mechanics....all hell breaks loose. You will still have the delays and a little bit of extra cost but not as much as starting from the beginning. But the risk of a game at best, just plays mediocre and at worst plays bad and is bug ridden. Now im not against the developer and am rooting for em...but reality is reality.

      In the end. It all remains to be seen. I really do hope they pull through and they create a wonderful game. I guess we have to wait till it gets released.

    29. Creator JoeyC on August 19, 2013

      Dissapointing.

    30. Creator Inquisitioner on August 19, 2013

      I find it very disappointing at how we, the backers that made this possible, were not consulted regarding something as essential and vital as this. Feels like the least they could do after we gave money due to hearing about a whole other game play.

      I too like Blake had the same idea, it's almost always a good thing to offer player an option to do both. Have an third person view and top-down. As long as neither one is being disregarded and both made to actually work properly.

      I am however curious regarding how one is supposed to manage a squad and base now when they're stuck in third person view. Things are bound to be "dumbed down" as in, reduce the complexity in order to simply if it so that it works for a third person view. Which would reduce the RPG and Management element that I loved about this game so much.

    31. Creator Orthas on August 19, 2013

      I too backed (and want) a management/RPG game, not 3rd person game with "realistic combat experience". Would much rather take unrealistic abstractish combat.

    32. Creator Knight Lord Marius on August 19, 2013

      Forsaken Fortress should have a lot to learn from Dawn of War 2

    33. Creator Knight Lord Marius on August 19, 2013

      I cant believe you people some of you actually like the idea of being promised something and then allowing for it to be changed, don't you have any pride. You gave money for a RPG/RTS, and now they turned it into a dayz sims shooter, and you don't complain?

    34. Creator Blake on August 19, 2013

      PP, I think basing the game in a top-down perspective and then allowing players to switch to 3rd person when they want to would satisfy most people and still offer the listed advantages of a 3rd person view when they're needed. Of the 7 reasons given for the switch to 3rd person, I think the only reason that would still be a problem would be "tactical combat in complex environment." Having the option to switch to 3rd person during a fight (and at other times) would be a great aspect to the game (I do want to be able to see the beautiful scenery), but I really would like the ability to build my base/manage my squads from a top-down perspective. Is there a reason why it would be difficult to implement that option?
      To the people who are getting extremely upset about these changes: PP knows this game way better than we do, I'm sure they made these changes for a variety of good reasons (how else are we going to see all of the beautiful sunsets, or walk around the base we built?). This happens all the time in game development. However, the great thing about kickstarter (and soon, in betas) is that the community can give them constructive feedback. I think telling PP what you are most looking forward to in this game will help to give them a better idea of the market they have.
      I backed this game because I like the strategic/tactical top-down base building and zombie survival combination.
      Noel B: I agree. Having options will allow players to play the way they want to play.

    35. Creator Brad Celski on August 18, 2013

      I guess I should wait for the beta, but this does sound pretty disappointing. I didn't want a shooter...

    36. Creator Noel B on August 18, 2013

      damit haha one thing , I don't know your over-all plans, but a thought about tactical, you could always add a pause feature, Think of dragon age , where you can pause in an rts environment to plan your attack. Would that actually hurt the game? No, I think it would add to your tactical aspects, but that's just me and to me it seems that would make the top down view allot more doable. Would it make the game "easier" then on the fly choices and decisions? it could and maybe that's what you don't want. but it was just a thought. If someone wants a tougher game, just don't hit pause but the option could be there for those that want it.

    37. Creator Noel B on August 18, 2013

      Finally, the way I seen this game from the info given was squad combat based on defending a stronghold in building it up, collecting resources and defending from the "evil that lurks out there" while establishing territory by expand and conquer. I seen the combat as you shown it later in the 3rd person while we would "design and tactically deploy our people and defenses" while 3rd person we could (as you have shown) control our squad by looking at point and hitting a hot key. It all looked too good to be true ! :)

      I can see why you guys thought "it would better as 3rd person always" for my guess is you are testing, working, testing and after awhile some in the group said " you know, the 3rd person is just so much easier for a,b,c." maybe what we haven't seen is what you are seeing to have thought about making that choice. IE we really haven't seen any base building sense the kickstarter so maybe you have some build you are working on that has it and makes you think the above things.

      Finally I think others here (being they seem a bit mislead till you cleared it up) that what was shown in the kickstarter was indeed a top down tactical game rts. Now personally? I just don't see that working for the combat (and this is my honest guess why you are thinking , "yeah that shouldn't be in the game" but if people want to do the combat that way, maybe they will find a way. But if you have both options (as you are now saying u can do) people will pick the way they like to play it. Maybe top down isn't the "best" tactical way to play but not everyone will play the same , good or bad as that will be :)

      Personally I will stick with my previous post and say to me at least, tactical always reminded me of doing base building and setting up defenses while 3rd person is all about combat / exploring and looting :)

      I am hyped for the game very much so, I believe you guys didn't get enough for such an ambitious game thou, but I look at it this way, if you do "sacrifice" your time to make the game as great as it can be , the pay off during retail will blow you away.

    38. Creator Dawn_ on August 18, 2013

      Did not*

    39. Creator Dawn_ on August 18, 2013

      Well, the real thing i signed for was a apocalyptic management scenario.
      As for the view, i really can't care less. Some would say..it was supposed to be this or that. but the core of the game didn't change.

      They change the view because on a survival experience such view implicates more the player into the environnement, then again if you wanted a fighting tactical rpg..ala Fallout i guess you did have what you wanted.

      But, Sims, Jagged Alliance, Fallout for relationship 3rd view, Tactical squad fight, Apocalyptic world. I guess everything is ok.

      Plus as they said this view would be moddable.

    40. Creator Noel B on August 18, 2013

      What I would recommend is the mouse wheel (as in other games with this idea) controls your zoom in and out. So basically if you zoom out in 3rd person to your farthest view in 3rd person it hesitates (seems like to stop) but if you turn your mouse wheel just a bit more back then it zoom's out to the top tactical view.

      I found that view more personally pleasing for building and design work (IE setting up defenses and the like) and watching past videos I thought we would go to that 3rd person view for combat etc.

      If you do it like that, (which I thought it was going to be like) you got a winner for all concerned. Being your using the engine you are using it's really built in already just on camera placement movement and control. Only thing needed is the interface (described above) to be tied into the mouse wheel.

      Also, I would highly recommend (being again this is what I thought you guys where going for) hit the alt key and your mouse cursor goes free to select things on the screen , move them around etc. If you have already built in this for 3rd person I can see the semi-frustration of building this system to see many go "but we expected the other way", which you can look at it like a large investment. In the end your game will sell that much better when you go live because you offer multiple options. People LOVE options in their games and doing this (which is seems you are now suggesting) will only add more to your game, our fun and the overall willingness for people to try an indi game.

    41. Creator Thomas on August 18, 2013

      Sigh, people are freaking out and some of these comments reflect a complete lack of reading comprehension.

      I don't see any references to this becoming a FPS game. The videos they've been showing for as long as I can remember have been in the 3rd person, and not the top down 3rd person perspecive either.

      This has not become a pointless shooting game, there's still tactics involved and you're still leading a squad and still building up a base.

      Apart from them technically breaking the top down promise, which it sounds like will still be an option, some of the comments about them completely changing the game are rather overwrought to the point of being rather cartoonish.

    42. Creator Brian L on August 18, 2013

      I think if you have the option switching back and forth from the top down 3rd person view to first person, people would calm down and it would probably make a much cooler game. Of course no one has even played the game yet so it's a bit early for judgement. imo as long as you're making progress and as long as the team is willing to stay committed to the game after release, I'll be happy.

    43. Creator Blackstaff The Unknown Obsidian Order on August 18, 2013

      Man, this is not cool at all -__-

      This is absolutely not the game I backed. There is a huge difference in gameplay between topdown real time and third person shooter. I can't care less about pointless shooting game and if you divide your time between two very different gameplay, one of them is sure to suffer. This is the first time that I have to say that I am very disappointed with a kickstarter project I backed. Now I probably won't even try this game....

    44. Creator Amenomade on August 18, 2013

      As long as your main avatar can be controlled like the other, with a right click to move and shoot at target based on his stats, and with a top down view I'm ok.

      Quote, update 6 "The characters’ AI will react based on your orders, so that you won't have to worry about controlling everything in real time. However, through manual control, you can still retain some degree of tactical strategy, such as flanking the enemy" You promise a lot for the squad part, how do I do that with a 3rd person camera, I stay on the mountain with my binoculars and I ask my team to move ? it's not Arma.

      You promise the Sims + Fallout + Jagged Alliance in a bunker-like base in a post apocalypse world. You have a change to do something new, do not fall into something we, as your backer, your main community, will hate. I love what I see and what you have done, being able to explore the world in a third person point of view, but I don't want it to be the main way to do it.

    45. Creator John Nordh on August 18, 2013

      When seeing the latest videos I thought it was going to be possible to switch view from 3rd person to top-down anytime during the game. If it's going to be locked into either I'm not sure what I prefer, so I guess I'm fine either way.

    46. Creator Jalister - OOoE / WoOS / SoSR on August 18, 2013

      I'm not sure what to say about these changes. On one hand I want to trust the developer, and I can't say I totally dislike what I see. On the other hand, after re-watching the promo video on the main page, I can say I really miss the original concept. I do hope that original concept will still be in this game. I never thought this game was going to be a shooter. I always thought it would be more like an RPG/RTS style game. I thought combat was based on targeting and stats, not on player skill.

    47. Creator BeCause on August 18, 2013

      If it wasn't obvious, I don't want another 1st/3rd experience.

      Oh yea, I also have almost all of the Halo titles, I don't need another shooter.

    48. Creator BeCause on August 18, 2013

      I'm disappointed in your decision, I pledged for a top down style game. If I want to play a 1st/3rd shooter, I'll play Fallout 3, or New Vegas, or Skyrim.

      This is not what I pledged for.

    49. Creator Stephen "Stoibs" D on August 18, 2013

      Sure, whatever.
      They've just said that it can be modded back for those who don't like it anyway ;).
      Wouldn't mind some new screenshots/a brief video showing a typical scene of the game in this new viewpoint.

    50. Creator Elfwyn on August 18, 2013

      I am with you PP. I am sure you have good reasons to change a few things along the way, so don't loose heart and do your thing. Tumbs up. :-)