by Indie Boards and Cards
I agree with Medwynd. Kickstarter is a FUNDING mechanism, not a method of pre-selling. Essentially , you are coming to us and saying "I've got this idea for an awesome thing that will never come into existence unless I can raise X dollars" . To that I say " Geeze, that would suck if that thing that sounds so awesome to me never gets made. The though of a world without that awesome thing is so dark and cold that I will take a risk by giving you my money well before I actually have a chance to see if it is as awesome as you make it sound..." Now , once you have enough money to make said awesome thing I no longer have any interest in giving you my money. After all, I only backed you because of the threat of this awesome thing never existing. So now you have two choices :Option "a" is that you could close the kickstarter and consider it a sucessfully funded project, option "b" is that you continue to collect money but as Medwynd said not to make profit, but to make the game better. Its dishonest (and anti-retail / mom'n'pop mind you) to "sell" your product for profit through kickstarter. The money that is above and beyond your funding goal should go toward making the product even more awesome...hence the stretch goals. You wouldn't be able to go to a bank or private investor to get funding then later on ask for more money "just because". They would want to see that the extra money is going toward something that will ultimately be valuable to them. You wouldn't call them "entitled" for having that expectation either.
I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent as I am pro stretch goal. I'm not a fan of kickstarter preorders, I prefer they be used to get a game made. I think anything above the goal should be used to make the game better and not be considered profit. The company can profit on selling it's crowded funded game at retail and it's online store.
I totally agree that stretch goals is a huge misuse...
But I also firmly believe that any game exclusive content in the end damage game fans and only benefits re-sellers...
PS: Can someone explain to me this "You are awesome award"; I mean what those extra cards do, and what are their use?
Of course I was bound to back this Travis!!! You're awesome. You've introduced me to some serious crack and I've paid for every ounce.
I apologize for my confusion. It was cleared up for me that these "You are awesome rewards" are for the retail release of the game as well as the Kickstarter release. This is good for the game, and I'm glad it's the case.
I'm confused. You make the point that it's problematic to offer backers things that aren't available to non-backers because the non-backers see the retail game as less valuable. Then you offer all us backers extra character cards because there could be a problem with character card consistency between the game and the expansion. Since this is crucial to the play of the game, this strikes me as something way more important to non-backers. As a retail customer I'd be much more upset to have to suffer this issue than say not having Lancelot in the retail version of Avalon. BTW: they're not "KS exclusives" if you bundle em up later and sell them as a retail release expansion like this.
Awesome update. Thanks for the cool stuff! Not everyone seems to be that happy-- but I certainly am. C'mon y'all. New Resistance expansion. Let's be happy.
And forgot to add...
This project does have KS exclusives.
I completely agree with David and Peter. Kickstarter helps companies unload risk by securing pre-orders cheaply. Given the success of all the games listed as potential add-ons, is it really the case that these two expansions won't get made unless the fundraising goal is met? Considering the prices on kickstarter are generally more than online retailers will charge, and considering further that the kickstarter fee is less than the marked-down price at which retailers will purchase the game, stretch goals on larger projects are really the only way to make a backing decision rational. On smaller projects, you're talking $1 or $2 extra that can be made up in bulk buying with friends (increasing my order here to 3 or 4 later today).
So what's the difference between the KS and retail editions? KS comes in one box instead of two?
No offense taken Zepaw. Near the end of the campaign I will evaluate this Kickstarter to determine if it makes financial sense to back it or not. Don't get me wrong. I like Indie Boards and Cards' games. They are a good company that makes quality games. But, if it makes better sense financially (when considering the exclusives offered, price point, etc.) to wait until the official retail release then I will have no problem doing so. Best of luck everyone.
@David, then don't back it. I don't mean that in a snarky way. I've seen projects that are successful and decided I may as well wait until the product is officially released. More backing is fine and all but if you're planning on buying it anyway there is no pressure to back a successful Kickstarter. The creator made their goal and if they wanted more they should have asked for it up front.
I agree with David. I'm not saying kickstarter exclusives should be the norm but if people can eventually buy a game on amazon for 30% off after release, successful kickstarters should offer some extras especially since it requires a money investment for 6 months or sometimes over a year before we get the product
I think you need to just focus on getting these products to backers BEFORE retail. Nothing pisses me off more, especially if you don't plan on giving stretch goals. What is my incentive to back you on KS vs just waiting for in store if there is no difference other than it being cheaper at CSI/MM? This should be your #1 priority other than actually delivering the game.
What a simple, great addition. I was (still am) planning on getting a copy of The Resistance as an add on in the hopes that they'd be from the same printing or at least a later printing. This removes the need for that in the best way.
Now we just need the box (already different from the retail packaging for Hidden Agenda and Hostile Intent) to be able to house all of the content from the core game. One Ultimate Resistance box to sit on the shelf alongside the Ultimate Coup box!
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade by offering a contrarian view, but the bottom line to me is that, although Kickstarter makes great sense from a company's standpoint, it makes no financial sense from a consumer standpoint to give a company money upfront to produce something that can be purchased identically at a later point and time at a cheaper price. I can understand possibly supporting a start up company, but not an established company. With online retailers and the free shipping they offer I know this is a tough obstacle to overcome. I don't need everything under the sun for sure, but I do need enough to make my decision to support you make financial sense. Just my opinion of course, but if the Kickstarted product will be the same product offered at a cheaper price later then I will choose to wait for later.
Thank you, this is a really cool extra reward and I totally agree with you about how stretch goals can break a project. If it is just allowing developers to fund, and bring forward, the expansion they were thinking of doing anyway they aren't too bad. However adding too many Kickstarter 'exclusives' can be bad for the overall product as you have described.
If you need me to back out of the project I can. My extra awesomeness might break you. Just sayin'.
Thank you Travis, thank you for doing this. I agree so much with your point about stretch goals. I think this is key: "Also stretch rewards often result in a wider gap between what backers get via kickstarter, and what ends up on store shelves - which in many ways defeats the "start" in kickstarter."
So, if I have this correct... I will no longer need the original character cards from my copy of The Resistance and only need to use the ones supplied in these expansions making the original character cards obsolete?
Someday avalon promo cards should show up for awesome goals?
You are Awesome! hope to see alternate art cards!
I'm pretty sure you guys got it backwards ... As has always been the way, "YOU are awesome."
I agree wholeheartedly regarding stretch goals. Of course I do enjoy the short high that comes from seeing all this extra stuff get "unlocked" similar to video game achievements or slot machines (which also go after that short term dopamine fix). In the end I find I am more excited for a game is being kickstarted then when I play the game. I'd glad trade stretch goals for having the peak enjoyment come from playing the game.
I am glad that IBC is sticking to its guns and not giving random stretch goals. IMHO, I am really glad that IBC is looking at kickstarter not as the end, but a means to the end: getting a game published and continuing to publish it.
I can't help but feel a tiny bit of scorn and contempt for publishers that don't continue supporting or publishing once fulfillment is complete. It is a good indication that the game wasn't good enough to publish in the first place.
Y'all are brilliant =D
I'm glad you avoid "stretch goals". A large portion of kickstarter delays are because a project reached more goals than they could manage.
I pledged for Coup Reformation from you and it's on track to be the first kickstarter reward I've received on time.