Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
@kamal taibi. Man I really hope you get everything you have spent back and with interest. Pretty sure the rest of us our fu@k since day one.
I spoke with the judge this morning. My solicitor, Cyberith's solicitor and Holger Hager (CEO) were there as well. We had a translator who has helped us for the communication.
There will be another court hearing on April 4th.
I can not say more for the time being. This lawsuit is still ongoing.
good luck @ Kamal!
Best of luck for tomorrow @Kamal; Greatly admire your persistence and really impressive you're actually going to Austria to meet the judge - I really hope you get justice for all those involved in the legal case. Once all is done and dusted I think we all have the collective responsibility to ensure Tuncay Cakmak and Co never work in the industry (or work full stop, for that matter) again - very easily achieved.
@procrash, Laudrac, the court hearing is scheduled on February 16th.
No updates on the legal case?
There is no refund they are out of money. Tried already 3 to 4 years ago after there first delay. They burned our money right after they got it.
Is there any updates on getting a refund for this??
After the Omni failed to deliver to european backers I had high hopes in Cyberith's Virtualizer to fill the gap, with a possibly superior product even. Sad to see that years later still no units have been delivered. If you can't deliver the product, because it turned out to be way too expensive to manufacture for private users, then I'd at least like to formally request a refund.
Any update on the court case?
Looks like 3d.run Cybershoes is different technology compared to whatever Cyberith had.
It is a VR adaptation of 40+ year old proven technology.
I am done with technical products on KS they never deliver and don’t have the cuts to tell you. This project is just one of many I have followed on KS and it’s always the same at some point after many years the finally inform the people that they screwed.
I have been contacted by a guy who works for 3d.run (valid URL) on Facebook, that makes shoes that can convert seated leg movement into locomotion using gamepad emulation.
They are going to have their own kickstarter campaign soon.
The catch is, they operate out of Vienna, Austria (they do not seem related though).
@Chris No i don't think they got the full ammount that was the reason Cyberith got in trouble. The Company promissing 1M$ stoped payment of the money halfway and Cyberith run out of cash to produce our HW. Atleast based on what Cyberith communicated long ago. Since then Cyberith tried to find other investors witout real success hence the B2B model to survive.
@Chris Jarram - I have got the official summons from the St. Pölten Court in Austria. I had to go the local Court office in my country. We used a video-conference tool. I spoke to the Judge.
There is a second Court Hearing in St. Pölten on February 16th, 2018.
This time, I will travel to Austria and meet the Judge.
Over 1.8 million dollars handed to these morons and they don't even answer to backers. Definately fair to say Tuncay Cakmak is a fucking buffoon... https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/cyberith
So what happened yesterday then... did the bearded weirdo actually turn up?
@Kamal... I thought it obvious that was a rhetorical question ;)
if you quote, don't change the statement behind the text!!
i NEVER said they should build a virtualizer for us.
We backed for a virtualizer in an early state (protoype) without all the features like "plug and play" stuff...
And yes i was waiting patiently, but after i got ignored for over 2 years by the developer now, i cannot accept it anymore...
i don't want the Virtualizer being delivered now... i just want a developer TALKING to his backers that backed over 360k $ ... and they are hiding since 2 years....
Last Login to kickstarter 4th of september!!
"We didn't give them money to build and create a toy for buisiness-sales only. We gave them our money to create the Virtualizer for us!"
No, you gave them money to develop a product, which is exactly what they've done. Kickstarter is not store, rewards are not guaranteed payouts. If you back expecting them, you shouldn't be backing at all. No sane backer would expect them to commit to a quixotic attempt to produce a few percent of the rewards then fold due to lack of capital, rather than produce them at a sustainable price to build capital to produce at a later date. Option 1 means most people get nothing, option 2 means everyone gets the product at a much later date (as if Kickstarters ever deliver on time anyway).
Probably some degree of amusement. Most supporters are just waiting quietly as normal business development occurs, and a handful have been taken in by a low-effort scammer claiming to be running a lawsuit for an up-front fee (I've yet to see them even post any links to public filing documents).
Where does the court hearing take place?
I wonder how it makes Cyberith feel, when their earliest fans and supporters takes them to court. The very same people who believed in them so much that they give them their hard earned money.
Really curious how it will go on the 13th of december
@Chris Jarram - It's none of my business if he decides to attend or not. It's between himself and the Court.
You honestly believe he'll attend? Let's face it, it's a miracle he even made it past puberty!
Cool good to hear all the best to get this company down and at least some money to cover your expenses.
@Laudrac - We have got a first Court hearing on November 15th with Cyberith's Solicitor.
On 13th of December 2017 at 10 am there will be a Court public hearing of the CEO of Cyberith.
Any update on the court hearing?
LiMiT is right, it's all about the B2B stuff.
We didn't give them money to build and create a toy for buisiness-sales only. We gave them our money to create the Virtualizer for us! If they would've told us one day that they've failed and that they had to shut down - Ok, no problem! Mission failed, money gone.
That would have been easy to accept, BUT..
- instead of this they have the product ready but selling it to businesses only
- they have decided not to answer any questions anymore
- or to make any updates despite of their promises
- their last log on to kickstarter was on Sep 4. Uh yes, they care so much about us..
That's what I'd call SCAM. They maybe haven't been scammers in the first place, but in my eyes they have become scammers or whatever you may want to call them. Even if they are only a bunch of as******, who overestimated their capabilities. They got a lot of money.. a lot.. and yet there is no sign, absolutely no sign, that they are willing to fullfil their obligation to us.
we backed for virtualizer in development status.
Not for creating business 2 business stuff. They have a full working product since they already sold it to many many arcade halls and stuff like this.
There was no reward like "give us your money to get a working product so we can sell it to other companies".
I've been following Cyberith long before the Kickstarter. I pledged for a full setup (which I have not received yet, of course). However, I am also familiar with what Kickstarter is. If I pledged assuming I am guaranteed to receive anything in return, I would be merely a moron, or at best utterly ignorant of what Kickstarter is: Kickstarter is not an investment, nor is it a pre-order (i.e. you have not 'paid of' anything). You GIVE money to a person/persons in order for that money to be used for development. If you get the 'reward' in the event development is successful, great! But if you were not prepared to 'lose' that money if development is unsuccessful, or to wait a long time for a reward, then you should NEVER have been pledging in the first place, and you have only yourself to blame. I have followed development of the Virtualiser, seen both in pictures and firsthand the hardware development that has taken place (i.e where my money has gone), and am happy with that. It is, after all, exactly what I pledged for.
@Googolkhan - Court hearing is scheduled on November 15th.
This is regarding the lawsuit started in Austria. In the End I did not get committed to it, because the initial fee demanded just to cancel our contract with Cyberith to be able to start a lawsuit afterwards was just ridiculously high (several hundred euros!). I just don't want to risk to bury several hundred bucks again, I am not earning enough for this, sorry.
Honestly I've given up on getting the prommised virtualizer right now. :( But maybe some day Cyberith rises from the dead and remembers his backers *harharhar*
And in the end, we all know when backing a project on kickstarter - this is not a online shop! Kickstarter Terms always said, they can not guarantee any project success ever. It's up to us backers if we "believe" the project makers can deliver.
But I hope the lawsuit delivers you guys the results you are hoping for!
What happend to the lawsuit though? Any progress right now?
@edzieba Are you new to this campain, There was no plan of product development when Cyberith shared this project with the people. Product Development startet just to communcate delays. I never accepted product development and clearly communicated it after they communicated because that not what i have paid for.
As a reminder as you may mist it : "Risks and challenges
Since we are a young team and hardware production and shipping is not always smooth sailing, there of course are some obstacles to overcome. We are well aware that production, shipping and logistics are the major problem areas for Start-Ups and Kickstarter projects. That's why we decided to outsource them and teamed up with experts for the respective areas.
We have already found local partners who have decades of experience in producing elaborate hardware and who will now produce, assemble and transport the Virtualizer. Some materials and parts from external sources will be utilized too, but every single step of production and assembly will be covered in one plant. If there still should be any unforeseen circumstances we can visit the manufacturers easily and sort the problems out quickly. Not only are our partners always within reach, but they will also deliver the highest level of "Made in Europe"-quality. Logistics and shipping will also be taken over by a professional company with years of experience, so the Virtualizer is guaranteed to arrive safely at your door!
It is very important for us to keep our promises that's why we limited the number of the offered Virtualizers to a number that is manufacturable in time.
Another point that also should be addressed is stress testing. Albeit Prototype 2 has been tested thoroughly by over 2000 people at various conventions over the last year, we have not stress tested Prototype 3 this extensively yet. That being said, Prototype 3 represents an improvement in every aspect and we expect it to be at least as durable as Prototype 2. Since our analyses, simulations and tests deliver affirmative results, we are confident in being able to deliver the quality we promise to."
I have to say it's pretty hilarious that the ones complaining about a 'scam' and demanding refunds (and thus clearly have no idea how product development works and have no place backing a kickstarter) are quite happy to throw more of their money at a nebulous 'lawsuit'.
I have honestly given up on getting my money back, I would really love to see these guys out of business, no longer walking around pretending like they own a tech company and definitely never to enter the VR industry again... Oh and Kickstarter, I have never backed anything since, thanks for profiting off scams and doing nothing to assist in resolution.
To people who think they can start companies, cut corners, not prove a viable business model to sophisticated investors and go on KS with a flashy video and lies and steal peoples money with no consequence. The internet remembers who you are...
I wanted to join the lawsuit but sadly i wasnt able to pay the starting price to be able to join the lawsuit.
@Joey Same, I was going to use it for a thesis, but im long graduated now. I don't know if they will ever bring it to market. We kind of just funded their business not the product. I have this small glimmer of hope that maybe we will get the Virtualizer, but with their track record I don't think so.
So... I backed this project in order to run my first-year project for my Ph.D. programme... I am graduating, and still don't have it... This is just surreal.
@Kamal Of course, any outcome is possible and none of all have all the information - however Cyberith's almost complete absence from any marketing efforts the last year, woefully poor resourcing to be able to respond to messages / post updates, as well as their inability to even start a production run for KickStarter backers, would in my experience - as director of a very similar company in both size and market - give some reasonable indications as to their current financial position. What's on paper won't detail the company's current unpaid debts either, which would only really ever become apparent if they're forced into administration.
I hope I'm wrong believe me, but I'd have expected far more visibility from them in recent times if they were really that solvent.
@Kamai Taibi, thanks for your explanation. Regards.
@Kamal Taibi I can provide you the financial situation with Cyberith. I bought some documents before I started my lawsuit
@Jose G. Garcia, I can not add anybody as the lawsuit has already started in Austria.
And to be honest, I have seen a lot of people leaving their email address, but when it was time to get really committed (paying a fee to the law firm), they didn't want to get involved.
I will see the outcome of this lawsuit, and stay clear from Kickscammer
I learnt my lesson.
Thank you @Kamal Taibi. Please add email@example.com
@Antonio Ochoa Nieto, I'm from spain. I would like to talk with you about It. Jose G. firstname.lastname@example.org Thank you.
@Chris Jarram, you don't have any data about Cyberith's financial state. I guess that you have some good experience and knowledge, but I think that you can not make any reliable forecast. If you have got any access to Cyberith's accountancy, you would be able to make a reasonable statement.
@Antonio Ochoa Nieto - Unlikely. In the event they're broke they'd likely apply for administration / liquidation - KS backers would be at the very bottom of the list of preferential creditors for any sort of rebate. Typically I'd expect that to be 1-5 cents on the dollar of anything awarded by the court, if anything at all.
As for control of assets (software / hardware), there is nothing to stop them simply starting up a new company as a seperate legal entity, and transferring ownership from one to another for a nominal amount of money - the assets will be for sale as part of the administration process, and typically shareholders or other potential investors would bail the company out that way in order to absolve them of all their debts.
In that situation, none of us get our money, or our Virtualizers, being part of the action or not. The only hope now is they have enough money to cover the refunds and still stay in business so the rest of the backers who can't afford the legal costs still, eventually even if several years from now, receive their rewards.
@Renaud Avisse, @Jason W ... sorry, I am too busy at the moment.
@Kamal Taibi email@example.com