An dieser Stelle kannst du dem Projektgründer gutes Gelingen wünschen, Fragen stellen und dich mit anderen Unterstützern austauschen. Wir bitten darum, den Austausch stets respektvoll und höflich zu halten! Danke!
Also, I'm not sure if this is part of @Ibrahim's complete delusion, but if there is actually some sort of legal action taking place against NEEO, they have an obligation to inform us. And before anyone jumps down my throats and says "they can't give details about that!", I'm not asking for details. If you're being sued, say, for some sort of IP violation, you can absolutely announce "We're being sued by XXXX for intellectual property violation. We feel these claims are groundless, and we have no further comment at this time."
Again, that's assuming something is actually happening. If they're keeping that from us, it's a violation of everything Kickstarter stands for in terms of transparency and honesty.
I think it's pretty clear that everyone is demanding a remaining items list with a timeline for said items. There is no more "if possible" on the timeline component, that ship has longer sailed. The bottom line is this:
If they're a real company and delivering a real product, they MUST have a timeline at this point. They have to. No project like this can operate without a schedule like that. If they don't have a timeline in place at this point, even a rough one, this project is doomed.
@OCDJ: I think the process of transfering a pledge already went through a couple of times. It sometimes takes a bit longer as Olivia is only working parttime.
@Sylvain Harent .. A rational post. Thank you. Asking if you would let us know if the transfer of funds goes through? If I can verify this process is working Ill be putting my pledge up as well.
common guys (and ladies), lets put this stupid fight aside. we all know perfectly all the opinions of the + and the - backers.
let us communicate clearly to @NEEO and post what you would like to see in the next update. just 1 simple objective whitout all the attacking and the excuses.
for example:
list of remaining steps and things to do (if possible incl. time line)
i'm not a supporter anymore, in fact i'm waiting the pledge's transfer so i'll not really come back here anymore..
but even if i don't like the journey i'm still hoping a remote like this will appear soon, and i'll buy one after the release (and reviews). I don't care to pay the full price, but i'm too disappointed to stay with this company for now..
i hope neeo will succeed to product the remote. (finish, mass product, chinese new year, verify, deliver.. summer 2017?)
However i don't understand some backers here..
Neeo don't give us timeline, and don't interact here or in the blog despite the fact they promise us a good/better communication at the start of their campaign (weekly update in the blogs, videos..).
For some backers it's enough, for the others it's not.. i can understand lots of pros and cons backers.
i like reading Niels and others pro active supporter, some of them talk about HA and this chat is interesting when it's constructive..
others are just here to troll obviously..
Ibrahim with only one projet backed in KS who explain how it works and what the others should do.. or guys who want give bad reviews to force neeo to react.. there is no way this chat can be constructive or interesting..
Good or bad reviews will not change anything, you will not have your remote quickly, so take a breath, wait or sell, and come here just to talk about HA.. everything else is useless (like my comment!)
since 2weeks now i'm waiting the transfer.. it's just fund transfer it should be faster...
@ibrahim you really are a very poor advert for supporting NEEO. Provoke, provoke, provoke. In fact I would go as far as to say that far from being the positive influence you claim to be, you are perhaps the person I see as most responsible for creating the negativity on here by constantly picking fights. Your moral superiority does not come across well and your wink wink "don't worry NEEO, I and the other proper backers support you, ignore everyone else approach" is pretty awful.
1. You could leave at any time, people would be happy to take over and get all your money back but you WANT to stay
2. being negative certainly causes damage to my money-- that's why I'm arguing here
3. we do have a (i agree only very rough) timeline and we know in about a week we will get the next UPDATE
so what's the point. news will come next week. and you will always be able to leave. that's better than in any equity investment! there is no risk for you.
I didn't make the comparison between the campaigns, I only stressed this to point out that I understand the difference between crowdfunding and a shop. I have to understand this, because like NEEO I'm a creator :) However, since you've raised the comparison:
Of course, if there's an issue with the printing (or something else that's not happened yet), I will have to report this to my backers, and explain what's going to happen next. However, you'll also note that in my campaign I said the writing itself was nearly completed (just pending proofing and design). If 18 months from now I'm still talking about adding new text and writing more chapters (which, as a perfectionist, is very tempting for me!), then I'd expect my backers to keep reminding me of my original commitment: To put the finishing touches on a book that was almost ready for market. There are parallels here. NEEO seems to still be working on things they'd implied were complete before the money was handed over.
What "ongoing legal battle" are you talking about? I've not been keeping up with their public blog, as I'm expecting to be kept up to date here, where I backed the project. If there's something in their blog that would help answer my questions, I'd genuinely appreciate a pointer - although really they should be posting here too, where the backers are. All I can see from following the KS updates, and from glancing at their blog, is a lot of very positive stuff but no clear timelines.
@Matthew Nichols: 2 or 3 hundred dollars...I believed in this product so much, and I back lots of KS campaigns, that I pledged almost $900. So don't tell me I'M being childish. To be honest with you, I've seen how convoluted this taking over a pledge thing has become, and don't want to even bother. I keep hanging to a very thin thread, hoping we get the NEEO soon.
@Matt Dale: Very well said on all of your points. This is just like the current presidential race; if you say anything negative, some people think you are a hater, and that is just not the case.
Facts that CANNOT be disputed:
1. NEEO has my money.
2. We have no product.
3. We have no timeline
@Matt: fair comments! I had a quick look at your project and it looks cool (of course only for the very niche market you are after) You brought it up so allow me to compare ;) You have not yet delivered so things can still go wrong. Think about let's say --if all the prints of your books would all be bad. would you feel good to ship? i guess the answer is NO and you would try to find a solution and you would tell your community about the delay and the reason. right? this is exactly what team neeo did. of course I hope for you everything goes smoothly. all the best and thanks for being a creator! I have very high respect for that!!! Anyways allow me this comment: I would kind of like to back you to shout in case you are not meeting my expectation ;)) JUST KIDDING!!! I'm personally not very interested but I trust you will do a great job because you wrote about something you seem to be really passionate about. Anyways I think comparing your non-tech campaign with a active community of 4 commenters is kind of hard -- so I will let it be.
If you read the neeo tech blog you will actually se a lot of info about things which went wrong, things that they struggle with and also successes. if you go back and read you will HAVE to admit.
You are claiming they were not honest? I think that's the piece you got wrong. Are they not informing about he ongoing legal battle? yes. guess what: this is important. our attorneys do not allow us to comment on any ongoing case and I guess that's the same for most companies. I guess you won't be in such a case with your book -- unless you have copy/pasted to much from other writers ;) Other than the legal case I believe team neeo has informed us about all topics so you really don't have a case here. I do think it's insulting calling someone not honest. There fore let me repeat:
1) EVERYONE WHO WANT'S TO LEAVE CAN LEAVE AT ANY TIME. There is something even better than the refunds - it's the backer transfer. why is that in place? - it's because many people are desperate to take over your pledge. It's a good sign there are a lot of supporters out there.
either you have the guts to risk supporting a crowdfunding campaign or it's now the latest point you should step out and leave it up to people who are willing to support someone also during challenges. I'm sure you guys claim to know the difference between a shop and kickstarter. I just don't fully see that in your behaving. I honestly think you have just partly understood! but my words probably won't change this. it's more a question of character and mindset I guess.
2. YOU ARE CAUSING DAMAGE TO EVERYONES INVESTMENT! The negativity you are trying to spread here will not only hurt your but also our investment. negative and insulting comments don't do any good for anyone. It does not help us early backers and it does not help the future of that product. so I kindly ask you to stop causing damage to my hard earned money. I believe in team neeo and that's why I support them. If you don't, just leave.
3) YOU ARE INSULTING THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE HERE You are bashing the neeo crew. how smart is that, really? You are risking that the guys who actually make neeo will loose motivation. you talk about "YOUR" neeo just like a product that you have ordered. that's another indicator that you just truly don't get the situation and you would be better off buying something on amazon. there is no neeo without a motivated team neeo. try to comprehend! - if you do not understand this - sell your pledge so you don't need to waste your time in a place you don't like.
@team neeo: I'm really sorry you guys have to go through that hassle. I saw it in all the successful Indiegogo campaigns I have backed. I would not worry about that though. There are some really strong supporters here that deal with that ;) thanks for all the hard work you are putting into this. BTW - like many others I love to follow the monthly blog. keep it up!
@ibrahim I have to say that I really dislike your stance with backers and your constant angling for arguments. You force your views on others and refuse to accept anything else. It is one of the reasons I do not comment so much on here any more. I think it's pretty disgraceful if I'm honest. And I support NEEO. I think you should step out for a few weeks yourself and get some perspective.
1. I do understand the difference between a shop and Kickstarter (I'm running a KS project myself at the moment). At a shop we'd get reliable timelines but no transparency. In KS we buy into a vision, and a partnership. We expect (a) that vision to be realised within a reasonable time and (b) transparency between the creators and their partners, the backers. I see neither of those things here. Part of the "fun" of KS is seeing how a project is run, and learning from that. All I'm learning from the monthly blog is that the NEEO team are spending time at trade shows. I'd like to know what's gone wrong as well as the successes. What they've learnt from it. What they're doing differently in future. This is what, as a backer, I buy into.
2 and 3. Insulting comments? I see nothing personal in mine or Frank's statements. I doubt anyone on NEEO is getting personally upset by our reasonable requests (and if they are, they shouldn't be trying to run a business). To cite Frank's example, did Samsung customers say "best not complain about exploding phones, the CEO might have a bit of a cry"? No. Because as customers they expected something, and the head of a company should be able to cope with that without "losing motivation" to produce the product they've promised (and yes, they have promised to produce a product which they do owe us at some point, albeit the specs and timelines may shift slightly from the initial campaign). I have every faith in Raphael's broad shoulders. Please don't apologise to him on my behalf, he's a grown up.
@Frank, @Matt: There are 3 very simple things you guys don't seem to comprehend:
1) EVERYONE WHO WANT'S TO LEAVE CAN LEAVE AT ANY TIME. There is something even better than the refunds - it's the backer transfer. why is that in place? - it's because many people are desperate to take over your pledge. It's a good sign there are a lot of supporters out there.
either you have the guts to risk supporting a crowdfunding campaign or it's now the latest point you should step out and leave it up to people who are willing to support someone also during challenges. I'm sure you guys claim to know the difference between a shop and kickstarter. I just don't fully see that in your behaving. I honestly think you have just partly understood! but my words probably won't change this. it's more a question of character and mindset I guess.
2. YOU ARE CAUSING DAMAGE TO EVERYONES INVESTMENT! The negativity you are trying to spread here will not only hurt your but also our investment. negative and insulting comments don't do any good for anyone. It does not help us early backers and it does not help the future of that product. so I kindly ask you to stop causing damage to my hard earned money. I believe in team neeo and that's why I support them. If you don't, just leave.
3) YOU ARE INSULTING THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE HERE You are bashing the neeo crew. how smart is that, really? You are risking that the guys who actually make neeo will loose motivation. you talk about "YOUR" neeo just like a product that you have ordered. that's another indicator that you just truly don't get the situation and you would be better off buying something on amazon. there is no neeo without a motivated team neeo. try to comprehend! - if you do not understand this - sell your pledge so you don't need to waste your time in a place you don't like.
@team neeo: I'm really sorry you guys have to go through that hassle. I saw it in all the successful Indiegogo campaigns I have backed. I would not worry about that though. There are some really strong supporters here that deal with that ;) thanks for all the hard work you are putting into this. BTW - like many others I love to follow the monthly blog. keep it up!
@Markus
What has all those positive backers bring to NEEO? Love and Peace? "Go NEEO, I believe in you" then what? WHO is CHILDISH here? Have all the love from the positive backers does make the schedule moved one day forward? I don't have to laugh at you at the end of this project, I already do when I see all the reasons and logic behind you guys.
Do you really believe there is one company, will call those who challenge their accountabilities "childish" "doesn't go anywhere"? You imagine people should not challenge to get the Samsung's Note7? iPhone's chipset gate? By saying that, it will be digging their own grave, gladly that you are not working for NEEO
@Markus: T&Cs not violated yet? Is this because in your eyes they've not failed to deliver? Some advice from as an experienced KS backer: there's two other projects I've backed that are clearly not coming to fruition, and neither of those formally announced that they weren't. In both cases, communication just dried up over time. There was no point where everyone agreed that they'd failed, it just started to become clear. So don't wait for an explanation from NEEO: *if* they fail, you won't necessarily hear it from them. To put it another way - if in 20 years from now they've still not delivered, but not told you they're NOT delivering, would you still think they're going to deliver? ;-)
Also, there's statements in the T&Cs about transparency and honesty which clearly *have* been violated here. At least twice they've said "nearly there" (during the pledge period, and when they promised beard growth) and it's clear they must have known then that this was factually inaccurate. This isn't accidental slippage (at least not one they've explained), it's bare-faced untruth.
@Frank: quite right! I'm a project manager, amongst other things, in my 9-5, and if I missed a deadline by 18 months and then kept evading questions, my superiors would rightly be reconsidering my employment situation. It's just the same here. You miss a deadline? Fine, things happen, but be transparent. Tell us what the new goals are, how you got into this pickle, and what you've learnt for it. That is what crowdfunders are paying for.
@Matthew: you've summed up my feelings too. I do want the end product here. I firmly believe at this stage NEEO should offer refunds to those who want it, as they've been unable to fulfill the rewards within a reasonable timeframe compared to the one originally promised. Personally, I'd rather the product itself, I just strongly feel they have an ethical responsibility to their 6,000 backers to give the choice.
"All the 'NEEO has to suffer' or 'NEEO has to be made accountable' is very childish and doenst get you anywhere. Its like a crying child at the counter of a supermarket that doesnt gets his sweets from his mom."
No. It's not childish to ask for general accountability from a company that you've given money to as a backer to produce a product you're owed, especially when that company is a year and a half past their estimated delivery date. Quite frankly, your comparison to a child crying for candy is ludicrous. We're backers who have given $200-300 to this company, hopefully in return for a product. We have every right to ask for transparency and accountability. No one here (that I can see) has said or suggested "NEEO has to suffer". What many people are saying is that since NEEO has ignored the multitude of backers who are unhappy with them and the lack of any discernible schedule or timeline, we may have to take some action to garner a response. Your post really just illustrates the point many of us are trying to make, which is you and a few other apologists who just insult people with legitimate concerns, and tell them to "sell their pledge" if they're unhappy. Most of us want what we were promised by NEEO and are willing to fight a little to see this through. There's no reason the two groups can't coexist here. You and a small minority of backers are pleased with everything and are willing to wait with no complaints. That's just fine, no one is trying to convince you to do anything, I mean that sincerely. The rest of us are unhappy with the complete lack of a timeline and legitimate communication on delivery, so we are going to try to get it. We don't affect you in any way. Stop hurling insults about being "crying children" and yelling at people to sell their pledges if they disagree with your complacency.
Yes, holding companies accountable is very childish. We should stop it and put our full trust in them. All they want is our best. They care about us. This is what history shows. /sarcasm
@Frank: What we, the positive believers, just dont get is why all the "angry people" just dont sell their pledge. Dont get me wrong, its totally understandable that some of you are pissed (not delivering, no timeline or bullet list, little communication). Why dont you just sell your pledge and its over for you. They are trying the best they can. Maybe they just cant tell more. Thats why KS T&C are not violeted yet. All the "NEEO has to suffer" or "NEEO has to be made accountable" is very childish and doenst get you anywhere. Its like a crying child at the counter of a supermarket that doesnt gets his sweets from his mom. And to be clear, it is not about shutting your mouth in the comment section. Most of you will be happier with selling your pledge and it has a nice side effect. You all can laugh at us belivers once the project is canceled without receiving anything.
@ Ibrahim/Raphael
I don't know who do you think you guys are to tell the others to "either sell it here or shut up". Comments that are negative have to be vetted by you or what? Said this thousand times. it is not about how hard they work how great the product is. It is their communication and lack of transparency making people angry. What country are you living in? somewhere middle east that took this for granted or?
I don't know what are your professionals, but in mine, a project without any forecast and schedule never ends well and should be reviewed more frequent than those who have.
@Ibrahim: I'm not saying I want to sell my pledge. I'm saying ethically, and per Kickstarter's T&C's, NEEO are past the point - I my opinion - where they should offer up refunds.
@Anders: Not me, although I notice the KS T&Cs state clearly that legal action might be taken if a project fails to materialise. And I do think as we approach two years overdue we have to wonder when it will...
@Walter to be able to send v 1.0 they have to be ready with the production equipment first. It's not like the remote is being improved every month. (Not hardware atleast)You can read about this in the update section or at NEEO.com
Since it's clear NEEO has broken several clauses in https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use section 4, it's high time they started looking at offering to "return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged)". "Changes or delays" doesn't cover what's happened here.
And no, selling rewards to other people isn't the answer. This is NEEO's issue and it's for NEEO to solve.
Time to send out Version 1.0 and then you (NEEO) can take all the time you want to create Version 2.0, 3.0 and on and on. 6,081 people invested $1,558,280 of hard-earned money to have you delivered a great product in a reasonable amount of time. That time has now passed- twice. Time to let the baby go and delivery. More success will come from this, trust me.
Round and Round we go...
Neeo tried this "List of things remaining" back in May. It sounded good at the time but of course it turned out to be just more stall tactics. Even if Neeo did provide an updated list, you can't trust it.
@Loic, NEEO backers in wonderland - a tale of the cult of the founders of the "remote that could do it all" is a pitch that you would probably sell in Hollywood.
I don't agree with it entirely, but I recognise a good idea when I see one. Shall we split it 50/50?
And yes I am convinced that, at this date, we have way many more unsatisfied backers than happy fans. Just look at the comments of the last update indeed.
Nevertheless I totally agree that our arguments here are helping no one and will probably not influence Neeo either (if they wanted to listen they would have done it since a long time already)
So yes next update is decisive for me as well. If it is as bad as the last one I will be happy to share my total disappointment ...
@anthony his hands are probably covered with some kind of drugs as well since supporters here have an impressive imagination to explain all potential scenarios which could justify Neeo total lack of communications to backers. This is just plain funny to me at this point to read some of the comments. We all live in wonderland ! :-)
But don't dare to worry: in Neeo we should all believe :-)
@Wilfred, I know, it was more a general comment about the community, than about you. And like I said, of course we have the right to be critical, but the community has evolved in a pro vs hate debate, while both sides of them might do more harm than good.
And yes, at times I also hoped for more information than NEEO gave us, but I think a lot of the debate that has been going on here, is more about one getting over on each other, than about expressing wishes for a better product, and better communication (again, not you, but the community).
So in short, yes be critical, push NEEO towards a better path, but lets all stay civilised.
@Kasper B, with all do respect, my comments on here are not negative, name calling, hate and attempts to break the company before it even launched a product, nor have I expressed hate. Not against each other or against NEEO as you. I did express my worries about NEEO not informing their backers properly on the progress, but just posting "updates" which are besides the point that everyone is waiting for; giving backers a proper timeline after a 2 YEAR DELAY in delivering what they promised 6,081 backers. For the record, giving "hope" to backers truly is an inappropriate expression. Hope for what? That the product may be delivered when we are lucky and sometime in the future? 6,081 backers paid a total of over $ 1,500,000 and its my humble opinion backers may expect a little bit more than just "hope" after 2 years. A timeline is what backers are waiting for. Please forgive my criticism, but maybe its time NEEO needs to take a serious look into the cause of this criticism and start working on a solution to prevent this. In other words, work om the root of the criticism and suspicion many backers currently have �
@Nick
I sent Olivia an email this morning, the last I heard was on 10/17 that they were going to contact you to start the transfer. If I hear anything I'll let you know.
@Anthony, I understand your point, just like I wrote in my comment, but it did give us a little preview of both the product and the dedication the team showed. Maybe we're all fools, but I do think that it shows that what we saw was convincing, at least for us.
Our experiences were all positive. You can ignore that, and move on, which would be perfectly fine, or perhaps it gives you a glimmer of hope. All we can do is share our experiences, in the hope others learn more about the product they are about to receive.
@niels - if you agree, don't worry about NEEO shooting themselves in the foot. It's a reasonable request and whilst I'm sure they appreciate the support, no one is asking them for a delivery date or anything that they shouldn't be able to disclose.
I vote 100% for task list and rough time frame for me personally with the disclaimer that I remain happy to wait - I just would like to know where things stand. And that's enough from me.
@james i fully agree with you. Without a timeline we are still in the dark. The reason I ask for a task list without timelines is that this is something we could all agree on this is something we all would like to know and NEEO would not shoot itself in the foot by providing a timeframe that later turns out to be to optimistic. I'm sure @Raphael from the NEEO team still reads these posts. If enough backers agree on this request I'll send an email to support to ask for this information in the next update.
I think it's funny that people think that shaking Raphael's hand at a trade show, and holding the prototype has anything to do with when we will have the remote, how good it is, or what NEEO is actually up to...
@niels the problem with not providing a rough time frame for any remaining steps is that things remain too open ended. As I've said, I have no idea how long a certain test may take - stating that "X test" needs to happen is only really helpful if we know that typically an "X test" takes X time! I think a vague approximation is definitely a fair request.
It could even be a "this typically could take between 2-4 months" - if they did this for each potential step, with a disclaimer to say these are just guidelines, we will have a potential and VERY ROUGH idea of what's left to do that won't result in us all guessing and then falling out.
I don't see the problem in asking them. I wouldn't really understand their reluctance at this stage. Sentiment seems rock bottom in here so it's not likely to do any harm! Let's see what the next update offers. I'm sure they're reading all this *hint hint NEEO*
@ Wilfred, I'm always happy if someone has a good barbecue. Unfortunately the weather is not helping here ;).
But in terms of the timeline, I do think they are quite open about what needs to happen. Sure, they don't post "we expect this will be done in 2 weeks", but that is probably part because they simply don't know, they probably had a lot of things they expected to go a bit quicker, but unfortunately turning out another way. It is probably also because they don't want to get our hopes up. Sure, we are all waiting for the day we can hold our NEEO in our own hands, but a part of the community here has been rather negative on news about delays. It is a situation where, whatever they do, someone will once again be negative.
Sure, there are things that could have been better in this project, and being critical is always good, but lets not resort to the pettiness of name calling, hate and attempts to break the company before it even launched a product.
I am one of the backers who was lucky enough to see the product and meet raphael *from the NEEO team, and it made me forgive them for the long due date. I know that doesn't do much to help the other backers, but I do think we will eventually receive a product that will blow our minds.
So all I can do is, first and foremost, hope that we will soon all get the NEEO, and forgive the team for the things that could have been better, but second, that the community here, both the pro NEEO, and the "I want a delivery date now" teams can understand we are all here because we want this product so badly.
Lets walk away from the hate, both against each other, and against NEEO, and lets together make sure we will eventually get the product we will come to love. Be critical, but be kind.
@Matthew, sorry, it was a bit late last night, please see the comment above to clarify.
An dieser Stelle kannst du dem Projektgründer gutes Gelingen wünschen, Fragen stellen und dich mit anderen Unterstützern austauschen. Wir bitten darum, den Austausch stets respektvoll und höflich zu halten! Danke!
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Ältere Kommentare anzeigenMatthew Nichols vor 30 Minuten
Also, I'm not sure if this is part of @Ibrahim's complete delusion, but if there is actually some sort of legal action taking place against NEEO, they have an obligation to inform us. And before anyone jumps down my throats and says "they can't give details about that!", I'm not asking for details. If you're being sued, say, for some sort of IP violation, you can absolutely announce "We're being sued by XXXX for intellectual property violation. We feel these claims are groundless, and we have no further comment at this time."
Again, that's assuming something is actually happening. If they're keeping that from us, it's a violation of everything Kickstarter stands for in terms of transparency and honesty.
Mark vor 37 Minuten
Have a great day everyone. I just wanted to be comment #7777 ;)
Matthew Nichols vor 38 Minuten
@Raphael
I think it's pretty clear that everyone is demanding a remaining items list with a timeline for said items. There is no more "if possible" on the timeline component, that ship has longer sailed. The bottom line is this:
If they're a real company and delivering a real product, they MUST have a timeline at this point. They have to. No project like this can operate without a schedule like that. If they don't have a timeline in place at this point, even a rough one, this project is doomed.
Mark vor 38 Minuten
@Markus, @Niels, @RaphaelNFTNT, @Ibrahim: +1
Markus Krüger vor rund 1 Stunde
@OCDJ: I think the process of transfering a pledge already went through a couple of times. It sometimes takes a bit longer as Olivia is only working parttime.
Markus Krüger vor rund 1 Stunde
@Ibrahim & Niels & Raphael (NfN): +1
OCDJ vor rund 2 Stunden
@Sylvain Harent .. A rational post. Thank you. Asking if you would let us know if the transfer of funds goes through? If I can verify this process is working Ill be putting my pledge up as well.
Raphael *not from the NEEO-team* vor rund 2 Stunden
common guys (and ladies), lets put this stupid fight aside. we all know perfectly all the opinions of the + and the - backers.
let us communicate clearly to @NEEO and post what you would like to see in the next update. just 1 simple objective whitout all the attacking and the excuses.
for example:
list of remaining steps and things to do (if possible incl. time line)
video of the UI
features that we don't know yet
etc.
Andreas R. vor rund 2 Stunden
@Ibrahim you and the fanboys are causing damage to my money by being naive and accepting everything you are being fed by NEEO.
Sylvain Harent vor rund 6 Stunden
i'm not a supporter anymore, in fact i'm waiting the pledge's transfer so i'll not really come back here anymore..
but even if i don't like the journey i'm still hoping a remote like this will appear soon, and i'll buy one after the release (and reviews). I don't care to pay the full price, but i'm too disappointed to stay with this company for now..
i hope neeo will succeed to product the remote. (finish, mass product, chinese new year, verify, deliver.. summer 2017?)
However i don't understand some backers here..
Neeo don't give us timeline, and don't interact here or in the blog despite the fact they promise us a good/better communication at the start of their campaign (weekly update in the blogs, videos..).
For some backers it's enough, for the others it's not.. i can understand lots of pros and cons backers.
i like reading Niels and others pro active supporter, some of them talk about HA and this chat is interesting when it's constructive..
others are just here to troll obviously..
Ibrahim with only one projet backed in KS who explain how it works and what the others should do.. or guys who want give bad reviews to force neeo to react.. there is no way this chat can be constructive or interesting..
Good or bad reviews will not change anything, you will not have your remote quickly, so take a breath, wait or sell, and come here just to talk about HA.. everything else is useless (like my comment!)
since 2weeks now i'm waiting the transfer.. it's just fund transfer it should be faster...
Anthony Reinking vor rund 6 Stunden
@James Long: Exactly!
He completely ignored the facts and went right to emotional rants...
Timeline? What alternate universe do you live in @Ibrahim?
James Long vor rund 7 Stunden
@ibrahim you really are a very poor advert for supporting NEEO. Provoke, provoke, provoke. In fact I would go as far as to say that far from being the positive influence you claim to be, you are perhaps the person I see as most responsible for creating the negativity on here by constantly picking fights. Your moral superiority does not come across well and your wink wink "don't worry NEEO, I and the other proper backers support you, ignore everyone else approach" is pretty awful.
Ibrahim vor rund 7 Stunden
@Anthony Reinking: Some more FACTS:
1. You could leave at any time, people would be happy to take over and get all your money back but you WANT to stay
2. being negative certainly causes damage to my money-- that's why I'm arguing here
3. we do have a (i agree only very rough) timeline and we know in about a week we will get the next UPDATE
so what's the point. news will come next week. and you will always be able to leave. that's better than in any equity investment! there is no risk for you.
BTW I almost forgot
Niels +100!!!
Matt Dale
Superbacker
vor rund 7 Stunden
@Ibrahim:
I didn't make the comparison between the campaigns, I only stressed this to point out that I understand the difference between crowdfunding and a shop. I have to understand this, because like NEEO I'm a creator :) However, since you've raised the comparison:
Of course, if there's an issue with the printing (or something else that's not happened yet), I will have to report this to my backers, and explain what's going to happen next. However, you'll also note that in my campaign I said the writing itself was nearly completed (just pending proofing and design). If 18 months from now I'm still talking about adding new text and writing more chapters (which, as a perfectionist, is very tempting for me!), then I'd expect my backers to keep reminding me of my original commitment: To put the finishing touches on a book that was almost ready for market. There are parallels here. NEEO seems to still be working on things they'd implied were complete before the money was handed over.
What "ongoing legal battle" are you talking about? I've not been keeping up with their public blog, as I'm expecting to be kept up to date here, where I backed the project. If there's something in their blog that would help answer my questions, I'd genuinely appreciate a pointer - although really they should be posting here too, where the backers are. All I can see from following the KS updates, and from glancing at their blog, is a lot of very positive stuff but no clear timelines.
Anthony Reinking vor rund 7 Stunden
@Matthew Nichols: 2 or 3 hundred dollars...I believed in this product so much, and I back lots of KS campaigns, that I pledged almost $900. So don't tell me I'M being childish. To be honest with you, I've seen how convoluted this taking over a pledge thing has become, and don't want to even bother. I keep hanging to a very thin thread, hoping we get the NEEO soon.
@Matt Dale: Very well said on all of your points. This is just like the current presidential race; if you say anything negative, some people think you are a hater, and that is just not the case.
Facts that CANNOT be disputed:
1. NEEO has my money.
2. We have no product.
3. We have no timeline
Ibrahim vor rund 7 Stunden
@Matt: fair comments! I had a quick look at your project and it looks cool (of course only for the very niche market you are after) You brought it up so allow me to compare ;) You have not yet delivered so things can still go wrong. Think about let's say --if all the prints of your books would all be bad. would you feel good to ship? i guess the answer is NO and you would try to find a solution and you would tell your community about the delay and the reason. right? this is exactly what team neeo did. of course I hope for you everything goes smoothly. all the best and thanks for being a creator! I have very high respect for that!!! Anyways allow me this comment: I would kind of like to back you to shout in case you are not meeting my expectation ;)) JUST KIDDING!!! I'm personally not very interested but I trust you will do a great job because you wrote about something you seem to be really passionate about. Anyways I think comparing your non-tech campaign with a active community of 4 commenters is kind of hard -- so I will let it be.
If you read the neeo tech blog you will actually se a lot of info about things which went wrong, things that they struggle with and also successes. if you go back and read you will HAVE to admit.
You are claiming they were not honest? I think that's the piece you got wrong. Are they not informing about he ongoing legal battle? yes. guess what: this is important. our attorneys do not allow us to comment on any ongoing case and I guess that's the same for most companies. I guess you won't be in such a case with your book -- unless you have copy/pasted to much from other writers ;) Other than the legal case I believe team neeo has informed us about all topics so you really don't have a case here. I do think it's insulting calling someone not honest. There fore let me repeat:
1) EVERYONE WHO WANT'S TO LEAVE CAN LEAVE AT ANY TIME. There is something even better than the refunds - it's the backer transfer. why is that in place? - it's because many people are desperate to take over your pledge. It's a good sign there are a lot of supporters out there.
either you have the guts to risk supporting a crowdfunding campaign or it's now the latest point you should step out and leave it up to people who are willing to support someone also during challenges. I'm sure you guys claim to know the difference between a shop and kickstarter. I just don't fully see that in your behaving. I honestly think you have just partly understood! but my words probably won't change this. it's more a question of character and mindset I guess.
2. YOU ARE CAUSING DAMAGE TO EVERYONES INVESTMENT! The negativity you are trying to spread here will not only hurt your but also our investment. negative and insulting comments don't do any good for anyone. It does not help us early backers and it does not help the future of that product. so I kindly ask you to stop causing damage to my hard earned money. I believe in team neeo and that's why I support them. If you don't, just leave.
3) YOU ARE INSULTING THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE HERE You are bashing the neeo crew. how smart is that, really? You are risking that the guys who actually make neeo will loose motivation. you talk about "YOUR" neeo just like a product that you have ordered. that's another indicator that you just truly don't get the situation and you would be better off buying something on amazon. there is no neeo without a motivated team neeo. try to comprehend! - if you do not understand this - sell your pledge so you don't need to waste your time in a place you don't like.
@team neeo: I'm really sorry you guys have to go through that hassle. I saw it in all the successful Indiegogo campaigns I have backed. I would not worry about that though. There are some really strong supporters here that deal with that ;) thanks for all the hard work you are putting into this. BTW - like many others I love to follow the monthly blog. keep it up!
James Long vor rund 8 Stunden
@ibrahim I have to say that I really dislike your stance with backers and your constant angling for arguments. You force your views on others and refuse to accept anything else. It is one of the reasons I do not comment so much on here any more. I think it's pretty disgraceful if I'm honest. And I support NEEO. I think you should step out for a few weeks yourself and get some perspective.
Matt Dale
Superbacker
vor rund 8 Stunden
@Ibrahim,
1. I do understand the difference between a shop and Kickstarter (I'm running a KS project myself at the moment). At a shop we'd get reliable timelines but no transparency. In KS we buy into a vision, and a partnership. We expect (a) that vision to be realised within a reasonable time and (b) transparency between the creators and their partners, the backers. I see neither of those things here. Part of the "fun" of KS is seeing how a project is run, and learning from that. All I'm learning from the monthly blog is that the NEEO team are spending time at trade shows. I'd like to know what's gone wrong as well as the successes. What they've learnt from it. What they're doing differently in future. This is what, as a backer, I buy into.
2 and 3. Insulting comments? I see nothing personal in mine or Frank's statements. I doubt anyone on NEEO is getting personally upset by our reasonable requests (and if they are, they shouldn't be trying to run a business). To cite Frank's example, did Samsung customers say "best not complain about exploding phones, the CEO might have a bit of a cry"? No. Because as customers they expected something, and the head of a company should be able to cope with that without "losing motivation" to produce the product they've promised (and yes, they have promised to produce a product which they do owe us at some point, albeit the specs and timelines may shift slightly from the initial campaign). I have every faith in Raphael's broad shoulders. Please don't apologise to him on my behalf, he's a grown up.
Ibrahim vor rund 8 Stunden
@Frank, @Matt: There are 3 very simple things you guys don't seem to comprehend:
1) EVERYONE WHO WANT'S TO LEAVE CAN LEAVE AT ANY TIME. There is something even better than the refunds - it's the backer transfer. why is that in place? - it's because many people are desperate to take over your pledge. It's a good sign there are a lot of supporters out there.
either you have the guts to risk supporting a crowdfunding campaign or it's now the latest point you should step out and leave it up to people who are willing to support someone also during challenges. I'm sure you guys claim to know the difference between a shop and kickstarter. I just don't fully see that in your behaving. I honestly think you have just partly understood! but my words probably won't change this. it's more a question of character and mindset I guess.
2. YOU ARE CAUSING DAMAGE TO EVERYONES INVESTMENT! The negativity you are trying to spread here will not only hurt your but also our investment. negative and insulting comments don't do any good for anyone. It does not help us early backers and it does not help the future of that product. so I kindly ask you to stop causing damage to my hard earned money. I believe in team neeo and that's why I support them. If you don't, just leave.
3) YOU ARE INSULTING THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE HERE You are bashing the neeo crew. how smart is that, really? You are risking that the guys who actually make neeo will loose motivation. you talk about "YOUR" neeo just like a product that you have ordered. that's another indicator that you just truly don't get the situation and you would be better off buying something on amazon. there is no neeo without a motivated team neeo. try to comprehend! - if you do not understand this - sell your pledge so you don't need to waste your time in a place you don't like.
@team neeo: I'm really sorry you guys have to go through that hassle. I saw it in all the successful Indiegogo campaigns I have backed. I would not worry about that though. There are some really strong supporters here that deal with that ;) thanks for all the hard work you are putting into this. BTW - like many others I love to follow the monthly blog. keep it up!
Frank Liang vor rund 9 Stunden
@Markus
What has all those positive backers bring to NEEO? Love and Peace? "Go NEEO, I believe in you" then what? WHO is CHILDISH here? Have all the love from the positive backers does make the schedule moved one day forward? I don't have to laugh at you at the end of this project, I already do when I see all the reasons and logic behind you guys.
Do you really believe there is one company, will call those who challenge their accountabilities "childish" "doesn't go anywhere"? You imagine people should not challenge to get the Samsung's Note7? iPhone's chipset gate? By saying that, it will be digging their own grave, gladly that you are not working for NEEO
Matt Dale
Superbacker
vor rund 9 Stunden
@Markus: T&Cs not violated yet? Is this because in your eyes they've not failed to deliver? Some advice from as an experienced KS backer: there's two other projects I've backed that are clearly not coming to fruition, and neither of those formally announced that they weren't. In both cases, communication just dried up over time. There was no point where everyone agreed that they'd failed, it just started to become clear. So don't wait for an explanation from NEEO: *if* they fail, you won't necessarily hear it from them. To put it another way - if in 20 years from now they've still not delivered, but not told you they're NOT delivering, would you still think they're going to deliver? ;-)
Also, there's statements in the T&Cs about transparency and honesty which clearly *have* been violated here. At least twice they've said "nearly there" (during the pledge period, and when they promised beard growth) and it's clear they must have known then that this was factually inaccurate. This isn't accidental slippage (at least not one they've explained), it's bare-faced untruth.
@Frank: quite right! I'm a project manager, amongst other things, in my 9-5, and if I missed a deadline by 18 months and then kept evading questions, my superiors would rightly be reconsidering my employment situation. It's just the same here. You miss a deadline? Fine, things happen, but be transparent. Tell us what the new goals are, how you got into this pickle, and what you've learnt for it. That is what crowdfunders are paying for.
@Matthew: you've summed up my feelings too. I do want the end product here. I firmly believe at this stage NEEO should offer refunds to those who want it, as they've been unable to fulfill the rewards within a reasonable timeframe compared to the one originally promised. Personally, I'd rather the product itself, I just strongly feel they have an ethical responsibility to their 6,000 backers to give the choice.
Matthew Nichols vor rund 11 Stunden
"All the 'NEEO has to suffer' or 'NEEO has to be made accountable' is very childish and doenst get you anywhere. Its like a crying child at the counter of a supermarket that doesnt gets his sweets from his mom."
No. It's not childish to ask for general accountability from a company that you've given money to as a backer to produce a product you're owed, especially when that company is a year and a half past their estimated delivery date. Quite frankly, your comparison to a child crying for candy is ludicrous. We're backers who have given $200-300 to this company, hopefully in return for a product. We have every right to ask for transparency and accountability. No one here (that I can see) has said or suggested "NEEO has to suffer". What many people are saying is that since NEEO has ignored the multitude of backers who are unhappy with them and the lack of any discernible schedule or timeline, we may have to take some action to garner a response. Your post really just illustrates the point many of us are trying to make, which is you and a few other apologists who just insult people with legitimate concerns, and tell them to "sell their pledge" if they're unhappy. Most of us want what we were promised by NEEO and are willing to fight a little to see this through. There's no reason the two groups can't coexist here. You and a small minority of backers are pleased with everything and are willing to wait with no complaints. That's just fine, no one is trying to convince you to do anything, I mean that sincerely. The rest of us are unhappy with the complete lack of a timeline and legitimate communication on delivery, so we are going to try to get it. We don't affect you in any way. Stop hurling insults about being "crying children" and yelling at people to sell their pledges if they disagree with your complacency.
Andreas R. vor rund 11 Stunden
Yes, holding companies accountable is very childish. We should stop it and put our full trust in them. All they want is our best. They care about us. This is what history shows. /sarcasm
Markus Krüger vor rund 12 Stunden
@Frank: What we, the positive believers, just dont get is why all the "angry people" just dont sell their pledge. Dont get me wrong, its totally understandable that some of you are pissed (not delivering, no timeline or bullet list, little communication). Why dont you just sell your pledge and its over for you. They are trying the best they can. Maybe they just cant tell more. Thats why KS T&C are not violeted yet. All the "NEEO has to suffer" or "NEEO has to be made accountable" is very childish and doenst get you anywhere. Its like a crying child at the counter of a supermarket that doesnt gets his sweets from his mom. And to be clear, it is not about shutting your mouth in the comment section. Most of you will be happier with selling your pledge and it has a nice side effect. You all can laugh at us belivers once the project is canceled without receiving anything.
Frank Liang vor rund 17 Stunden
@ Ibrahim/Raphael
I don't know who do you think you guys are to tell the others to "either sell it here or shut up". Comments that are negative have to be vetted by you or what? Said this thousand times. it is not about how hard they work how great the product is. It is their communication and lack of transparency making people angry. What country are you living in? somewhere middle east that took this for granted or?
I don't know what are your professionals, but in mine, a project without any forecast and schedule never ends well and should be reviewed more frequent than those who have.
Matt Dale
Superbacker
vor rund 19 Stunden
@Ibrahim: I'm not saying I want to sell my pledge. I'm saying ethically, and per Kickstarter's T&C's, NEEO are past the point - I my opinion - where they should offer up refunds.
@Anders: Not me, although I notice the KS T&Cs state clearly that legal action might be taken if a project fails to materialise. And I do think as we approach two years overdue we have to wonder when it will...
Anders vor rund 19 Stunden
@Matt Dale, are you hinting at a class action lawsuit?
Niels de Klerk vor rund 21 Stunden
@Walter to be able to send v 1.0 they have to be ready with the production equipment first. It's not like the remote is being improved every month. (Not hardware atleast)You can read about this in the update section or at NEEO.com
Ibrahim vor rund 21 Stunden
@Matt Dale: if you give up on them that's fine. just sell your pledge. lots of people waiting for it. cheers
Matt Dale
Superbacker
vor rund 22 Stunden
Since it's clear NEEO has broken several clauses in https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use section 4, it's high time they started looking at offering to "return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged)". "Changes or delays" doesn't cover what's happened here.
And no, selling rewards to other people isn't the answer. This is NEEO's issue and it's for NEEO to solve.
Walter vor rund 23 Stunden
Time to send out Version 1.0 and then you (NEEO) can take all the time you want to create Version 2.0, 3.0 and on and on. 6,081 people invested $1,558,280 of hard-earned money to have you delivered a great product in a reasonable amount of time. That time has now passed- twice. Time to let the baby go and delivery. More success will come from this, trust me.
OCDJ vor 1 Tag
Round and Round we go...
Neeo tried this "List of things remaining" back in May. It sounded good at the time but of course it turned out to be just more stall tactics. Even if Neeo did provide an updated list, you can't trust it.
Kasper B vor 1 Tag
@Anthony, shame I don't work for NEEO, as has been suggested here in recent history. Lets all hope for the next update!
Kasper B vor 1 Tag
@Loic, NEEO backers in wonderland - a tale of the cult of the founders of the "remote that could do it all" is a pitch that you would probably sell in Hollywood.
I don't agree with it entirely, but I recognise a good idea when I see one. Shall we split it 50/50?
Loic vor 1 Tag
And yes I am convinced that, at this date, we have way many more unsatisfied backers than happy fans. Just look at the comments of the last update indeed.
Nevertheless I totally agree that our arguments here are helping no one and will probably not influence Neeo either (if they wanted to listen they would have done it since a long time already)
So yes next update is decisive for me as well. If it is as bad as the last one I will be happy to share my total disappointment ...
Loic vor 1 Tag
@anthony his hands are probably covered with some kind of drugs as well since supporters here have an impressive imagination to explain all potential scenarios which could justify Neeo total lack of communications to backers. This is just plain funny to me at this point to read some of the comments. We all live in wonderland ! :-)
But don't dare to worry: in Neeo we should all believe :-)
Kasper B vor 1 Tag
@Wilfred, I know, it was more a general comment about the community, than about you. And like I said, of course we have the right to be critical, but the community has evolved in a pro vs hate debate, while both sides of them might do more harm than good.
And yes, at times I also hoped for more information than NEEO gave us, but I think a lot of the debate that has been going on here, is more about one getting over on each other, than about expressing wishes for a better product, and better communication (again, not you, but the community).
So in short, yes be critical, push NEEO towards a better path, but lets all stay civilised.
Wilfred Rottier vor 1 Tag
@Kasper B, sorry, one sentence I didn't finish correctly. It should read: "Not against each other or against NEEO as you mentioned in your commend"
Wilfred Rottier vor 1 Tag
@Kasper B, with all do respect, my comments on here are not negative, name calling, hate and attempts to break the company before it even launched a product, nor have I expressed hate. Not against each other or against NEEO as you. I did express my worries about NEEO not informing their backers properly on the progress, but just posting "updates" which are besides the point that everyone is waiting for; giving backers a proper timeline after a 2 YEAR DELAY in delivering what they promised 6,081 backers. For the record, giving "hope" to backers truly is an inappropriate expression. Hope for what? That the product may be delivered when we are lucky and sometime in the future? 6,081 backers paid a total of over $ 1,500,000 and its my humble opinion backers may expect a little bit more than just "hope" after 2 years. A timeline is what backers are waiting for. Please forgive my criticism, but maybe its time NEEO needs to take a serious look into the cause of this criticism and start working on a solution to prevent this. In other words, work om the root of the criticism and suspicion many backers currently have �
Frank vor 1 Tag
@Nick
I sent Olivia an email this morning, the last I heard was on 10/17 that they were going to contact you to start the transfer. If I hear anything I'll let you know.
Anthony Reinking vor 1 Tag
@Kasper B: Good reply! That...is the kind of honest update, i want from NEEO.
Kasper B vor 1 Tag
@Anthony, I understand your point, just like I wrote in my comment, but it did give us a little preview of both the product and the dedication the team showed. Maybe we're all fools, but I do think that it shows that what we saw was convincing, at least for us.
Our experiences were all positive. You can ignore that, and move on, which would be perfectly fine, or perhaps it gives you a glimmer of hope. All we can do is share our experiences, in the hope others learn more about the product they are about to receive.
James Long vor 1 Tag
@niels - if you agree, don't worry about NEEO shooting themselves in the foot. It's a reasonable request and whilst I'm sure they appreciate the support, no one is asking them for a delivery date or anything that they shouldn't be able to disclose.
I vote 100% for task list and rough time frame for me personally with the disclaimer that I remain happy to wait - I just would like to know where things stand. And that's enough from me.
Niels de Klerk vor 1 Tag
@anthony Raphael must have magical hands.
Niels de Klerk vor 1 Tag
@james i fully agree with you. Without a timeline we are still in the dark. The reason I ask for a task list without timelines is that this is something we could all agree on this is something we all would like to know and NEEO would not shoot itself in the foot by providing a timeframe that later turns out to be to optimistic. I'm sure @Raphael from the NEEO team still reads these posts. If enough backers agree on this request I'll send an email to support to ask for this information in the next update.
Anthony Reinking vor 1 Tag
I think it's funny that people think that shaking Raphael's hand at a trade show, and holding the prototype has anything to do with when we will have the remote, how good it is, or what NEEO is actually up to...
James Long vor 1 Tag
@niels the problem with not providing a rough time frame for any remaining steps is that things remain too open ended. As I've said, I have no idea how long a certain test may take - stating that "X test" needs to happen is only really helpful if we know that typically an "X test" takes X time! I think a vague approximation is definitely a fair request.
It could even be a "this typically could take between 2-4 months" - if they did this for each potential step, with a disclaimer to say these are just guidelines, we will have a potential and VERY ROUGH idea of what's left to do that won't result in us all guessing and then falling out.
I don't see the problem in asking them. I wouldn't really understand their reluctance at this stage. Sentiment seems rock bottom in here so it's not likely to do any harm! Let's see what the next update offers. I'm sure they're reading all this *hint hint NEEO*
Kasper B vor 1 Tag
@ Wilfred, I'm always happy if someone has a good barbecue. Unfortunately the weather is not helping here ;).
But in terms of the timeline, I do think they are quite open about what needs to happen. Sure, they don't post "we expect this will be done in 2 weeks", but that is probably part because they simply don't know, they probably had a lot of things they expected to go a bit quicker, but unfortunately turning out another way. It is probably also because they don't want to get our hopes up. Sure, we are all waiting for the day we can hold our NEEO in our own hands, but a part of the community here has been rather negative on news about delays. It is a situation where, whatever they do, someone will once again be negative.
Sure, there are things that could have been better in this project, and being critical is always good, but lets not resort to the pettiness of name calling, hate and attempts to break the company before it even launched a product.
I am one of the backers who was lucky enough to see the product and meet raphael *from the NEEO team, and it made me forgive them for the long due date. I know that doesn't do much to help the other backers, but I do think we will eventually receive a product that will blow our minds.
So all I can do is, first and foremost, hope that we will soon all get the NEEO, and forgive the team for the things that could have been better, but second, that the community here, both the pro NEEO, and the "I want a delivery date now" teams can understand we are all here because we want this product so badly.
Lets walk away from the hate, both against each other, and against NEEO, and lets together make sure we will eventually get the product we will come to love. Be critical, but be kind.
@Matthew, sorry, it was a bit late last night, please see the comment above to clarify.
Felix Keller vor 1 Tag
Partly agree with Niels, fully agree with James.
I wonder if I should buy a new remote to replace my broken Harmony.
Anthony Reinking vor 1 Tag
@Niels: As long as the bullet list isn't vague.
I.E. This week we moved the NEEO to workbench B to begin testing, next week we will be moving the remote back to workbench A to continue testing.
...and yes, I am one of those who doesn't care what they had for dinner last night, or where little timmy went for space camp.
This is ONLY about the NEEO remote, and what's the real status....