by Rinnovated Design
Can any Beta-testers please PM me?
@Chi Chung Tsang: Check the newest update. He posted a link to the full BOM, GitHub with all the software code and technical drawings (cad files), and a video of the full assembly (video is a bit outdated, but not too much). The only thing we don't have to build a full printer at this point is the physical parts, which you can source and create using the BOM and tech drawings.
well kickstarter is never 100%, one thing i like to see is if you guys can provide a video series putting a printer together. so some of us who are more technically capable may be able to build their own printers. i looked on the github link but i got really confused, i understood the PCB and BOM parts but i'm not sure how to assemble the laser and magnet part.
You waited an awfully long time before telling your backers you weren't going to deliver. You knew you weren't going to deliver many months ago, but you kept putting up the happy face. In a real corporate setting, this would have been considered a material omission and a breach of fiduciary responsibility. Of course, this assumes everything in your last update is true, but since even taking you at your word, you've been hiding things from your backers, your credibility is pretty much shot at this point.
Disgusting. I hope the house gets struck by lightning and burns down and you both spend a long time in jail for this. Kickstarter just makes it easy for fraudsters and conmen to fleece well intentioned people of their hard earned money. This was the first project I've backed and will be my last.
Sell the house! Provide the location of the house!
For those questioning the choice of legal action: criminal law has no interest on recovering money; it's about fines and imprisonment as a deterrent. In this case, that'd reduce the likelihood of any funds being repaid. Hence, civil law would have looked a better path.
My concern would be whether it was simply theft (where the victim can press charges and/or file suit), or a breach of corporation law, which may have mandatory reporting depending on the type of company and the jurisdiction. Publicly listed companies have additional obligations. I understand this a private company. Pre-orders are customers. It may be unclear whether a crowdfunding backer has more or less rights than a customer who has prepaid. It may be less.
Then there's contracts with Kickstarter and Indiegogo etc, which can be pursued by those organisations.
Personally, I thought there was value in the simplicity of the original concept. I didn't jump in assuming the product would be substantially improved over 2 years of waiting, and I would have preferred upgrade options afterward. Anyway, here is where we are. I hope you can manage a way forward.
Ok, I'll start with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch…
And now to be more serious. I think leading off with the video where you talk to backers would have been the way to go, because the text in the update didn't mention the grants and borrowed funds (perhaps they were part of previous updates that I missed). Why does this matter? Personally, I think that shows good intentions that back up Rylan's reasons for not disclosing the situation sooner, as he was trying to dig the company out of its financial hole.
When the employees moved in, what was the reason for this? Did you have to cut their pay and then take them in as compensation? Also shows good intentions, and the team has my sympathy and respect for going through this.
I think it would be useful to disclose your books. And I agree that the project should be open sourced. Do you *really* have to get certification on the diode before shipment? For those not looking for a final product and just want to build the printer, they could probably care less. I certainly don't. I think you should provide all of the parts you have, especially the custom PCBs with the coils, to all of the backers. Then form a community site where we can all hack at it and try to get everything together. People will help each other out in a situation like this, so those that have hackerspace memberships will undoubtedly help anyone with the raw materials to laser cut or print whatever parts are needed.
At the end of Peachy campaign you received $587,435 and expecteded to deliver the printers for this money.
Now you have spent $582,000 and provisioned additional $15,000 for Laser certification:
$ 200,000 - "David then transferred $200,000 to cover initial operating expenses."
??? - "Backerkit pre-order campaign."
$30,000 - transfer David
$17,000 - transfer David
$15,000 - "David makes 1st payment of $15,000".
$45,000 - "David makes $45,000 payment to Peachy Printer."
$50,000 - "Peachy Printer receives $50,000 loan"
$90,000 - Gov funds "based mainly on Peachy"
$135,000 - Tax Incentive Program
Potentially you've spent also from $75,000 indiegogo, as one commenter mentions.
You had a partner that embezzled a huge amount of funds and put all the blame of the non-delivery on him.
Could you please share your initial business plans with us?
@charles hart, @Patrik - fully agree with you.
@Don Sanders - seriously ? You may be right but at this point in time there are still issues to be clarified.
Maybe it's just me, but I also feel like I just got kicked in my private area after watching the fancy video with animated effects to show how the money was embezzled / stolen. Great.
@Rylan, Thank you for informing the backers of the situation (better late than never). I empathize with your situation, where there are only hard choices left for you after another party made irresponsible choices. I hope that the peachy company still has a future, but David has put that in serious jeopardy.
If you still truly want to act in the best interest of the backers, start publishing documentation, code, schematics, and designs now. Immediately, before you miss another window of opportunity. Peachy Inc. can still sell and ship out kits, resin, and replacement parts -- none of your backers *really* care if you start selling the product to non-backers before the backers get their rewards. Open source projects that have a central company to sell pre-assembled kits and specialized support can be very successful. The product just has to be good enough to get the community's support as a whole, and Peachy, in my opinion, meets that requirement.
Fulfill your obligation to the backers: let the technically capable among us us take the personal risk of building our own from scratch without any certifications for sale or fitness for use. Allow your true believers to show the world the innovation and value of this design, now, before it's too late.
Rylan i recommend you run a live stream of yourself and the peachy to gain some credibility. Run through setup and make a print. I recommend this as in the videos you make you seem to be disengenuous through a perfect combination of the videos being overly produced (seriously how many hours have been spent on this presentation?) while you seem really uncomfortable trying to be whatever it is you think you should be; i get the same feeling watching hillary clinton (maybe it is just me). running the peachy on a live stream may help to build credibility and trust.
Also I dont see where you say how much more funding you need to ship units to backers ( i guess without lasers if possible to avoid the whole certification thing)?
Besides that: What from the last 18 months can we really believe? Were there actual problems? Were there improvements? Did anything happen at all or was all of that just coverage for the total mess you created?
I can just talk for Germany, but both of you would be so f*cked for stealing money from a company. One of you for stealing it, the other one for covering the whole thing up. And I really hope, police gets both of you busted and we get either printers or our money.
In your video talking with 3 of the local backers it was mentioned that you have a lot of the components to make the printers. I think that at this point it would be massively important for you to show the current capabilities of the printer, preferably in simple videos (very little editing etc) just to prove to everyone how far along you are.
Once you have done that you should try to get the printers out to the backers, you could potentially send some out to a few who are early in the queue or nearby initially. This will get some people out there who can prove the quality of the current printer as well. It might be a good idea to try and send the printers out without the certification (if possible) apparently there are companies that are getting around certain certifications (food etc) by claiming stuff as gifts. If this isn't possible, potentially send out the printers without the laser and give the backers what they need to source one ourselves.
Perhaps open up the current design of the printer (I know a lot of people are shouting for this, this will probably generate a little bit of goodwill) the hardware and software.
I get the feeling that many backers would be willing to fork over a little more to cover the costs of shipping the components that you already have to them. Overall I think the main reason why people backed this project was because they believed in the printer as an idea, I believe many still care more about the printer than getting a refund.
@Andrew Tanguay: Smells? This *reeks* of embezzlement. That house should be forfeit, and soon. There are always technical risks and expected delays of any project, and I loved the openness of the technology development, but accounting fraud is over the top.
With that said, at this point, I'd be somewhat satisfied with an open source release of the design. Let the money that was spent do some good out there.
As a Peachy backer, I would be willing to lend Peachy up to $100 toward completing the certifications and shipping the backer kits. I would expect to be repaid out of profits from sales after all backers have been rewarded. We backers have invested a little money and a lot of ourselves in this project, and I think many other backers would be willing to go the extra mile to see it completed and succeed. Ultimately, I think David Boe should be forced by lawsuit to sell his home and pay back all the stolen funds, plus Peachy's legal expenses. But, I know it may be several years before that can be effected, and the time to rescue Peachy is now. I would like to see a Backer's Loan Fund set up to receive my $100 loan and make it available to all other like-minded backers.
People's argument that 'Hey, it's Kickstarter, there are risks' is BS. The risks for something like this are engineering risks, unforseen manufacturing problems, etc.
Peachy Printer...the First $100 3D Printer...now featuring 6 bedrooms, 4 baths, spa tub, granite countertops and a lovely sun porch.
It's quite nice, it just smells a little like embezzlement.
I dont believe one single word. I tell you what happened: You did not manage to get the printer work . Then money was running out. Now you pulled the plug with this childish story that may show part of the problem, namely fraud by the founders, but only distracts from the real failure to finish the project. otherwise, if you did have a working product, you could have asked for funds from many many tech companies that would buy themselfs in. You say David stole some money, then he paid a large portion back. so where is the problem? Then this is old "Big Bad News" stuff, you could have informed us months ago.
No Rylan, the peachy printer is only hot air, nothing else. You spend all the funds, no matter where they went and the printer still is not working properly. If you had me as business consultant I would have advised you to ship out, no matter what. Backers would have been disappointed, including me, but now you created some criminal case that will have a long lasting effect on you. You will see that David will pay the remaining bucks, keep his house and backers will be left with zero compensation. It will turn out to be a "big misunderstanding".
RYLAN GO TO YOUR GARAGE PRINT OUT SOME FANCY STUFF, NO CHEAP TRICKS, FILM IT AND POST IT. Or better have someone else do it, so we know it is not a fake print from some Formlabs printer.
Where has all the staff gone? I bet they could tell us what was really going on.
And hey, don´t ask for MORE MONEY!
Ed... They cover their tracks before. You really think they are not trying to cover stuff even now?
@Sam Fentress, the math doesn't add up for me either. Also, you forgot to include their $75,000 indiegogo campaign.
Can we have the plans and location of the house?
I offer $5,000 for it, cash, payable tomorrow.
If no one can beat that, I'll happily take possession.
it's not fair to expect others to fund the completion of our investments. It also wouldn't be fair to ask for them to assist in funding a lawsuit for our gain. Kickstarter, in its core, is essentially a high risk high reward game and it looks like this time we've lost.
As much as I appreciate that you're keeping us updated I honestly would have much rather known about the issues as they arose. I had been saying great things about the peachy printer and creating many plans with people about how we will be using it. From fun things to things that benefit our businesses. In doing so they frequently ask me about it and I have constantly had to tell them that it has been delayed further. Now I'll have to admit to them that this is likely to not happen and explain to them why. It would have been much easier right from the beginning to know the truth and be open with everyone about it.
I am still hoping for the printer at some point in life but any excitement and enthusiasm I once had has dwindled. I hope to see and has the product in the future so that I can regain some credibility not only with my word but with the ability of open source funding potential.
Finally, a new video of current prints being made would be great to quell some of the suspicious from people that the product doesn't work. Maybe a print of the current date. It would remove that level of doubt and personally it would be nice to see the printer in action again.
I think I can speak for all the backers when I say that "I want to believe" please make this more tangible than the likelyhood of aliens to the world.
I don't understand how your finances add up:
1. David stole $324,700
2. He paid back $107,000
3. You got a $90,000 grant
4. You got a $135,000 grant
5. You got a $50,000 loan
This adds up to $57,300 *more* than you had before he stole the money. The grants alone have covered what he hasn't paid back.
So were you *ever* going to be able to ship, even if he hadn't stolen the money?
I am really sorry to hear this bad news. It must be a very difficult time for you in addition to the stresses of putting together the project. It's understandable that a few people are upset but I think you have set out the situation clearly.
The big question is how to move forward.
If the house asset can be quickly converted to cash, this would seem to be the best way forward. This would require David's cooperation (short term) or expensive lawyers (long term).
If there does not seem to be a way to quickly recover the funds, I think the project is effectively bankrupt. At this point I think people have made good suggestions:
- open source the design
- allow people to pay additional money to get working printers
- sell printers on the open market to generate income to ship the remaining pledges
(I know this will rub people the wrong way but I think it's the "least bad" option. People can pay more to get their printer sooner or wait to get their original pledge.)
I do wish you all the best during this difficult time.
For those who backed as Betas, I'm curious if the prototypes you received functioned in any usable way? IE, small print volume and poor resolution are acceptable for a prototype, inability to print a simple model such that it's recognizable and the correct size is not acceptable.
I've read and seen all the videos and I haven't seen you take any bit of responsibility.
I have backed a lot of projects in KS and I understand risk of failure is always involved... but this... this is unacceptable. It is so wrong in so many ways.
The only piece of advice that I can give you is: Think wise on your next steps. We already know that David is a crook but you're about to hit hard on your reputation if you don't take full responsibility as CEO and take action. We backed you, we believe in you, we deserve better than "is David's fault".
I'm very confused as to why I'm not seeing information about seizing this house, selling it, and moving forward. I have been f#*%ING DEFRAUDED and as restitution I'm seeing a video with a smug guy in a hotel room going 'hey sorry'. That will NOT do the trick to make me feel better!
I do appreciate the transparency, but if I'm being told everything, I'm noticing a huge lack up updates as to charges against this theif and the seizing of this house. Where are they?!?!
On a personal level...this sucks. I have a friend who is done with backing Kickstarters after EVERY single one goes late...often as laughably long as this one. It makes him very angry. I try to look at it and smile and just know it's part of the process and be happy when it shows up. But after this I'm done with Kickstarter too.
I know that people can underestimate the amount of work and the details that go in to making a product. But I had never for once thought I'd simply be defrauded and stolen from. So, thank you David Whatever, you've blown my faith in this entire system.
I hope you do jail time, and at the very least, if I have any say in it, you will DEFINITELY not be keeping your little palace I built for you.
This is crap. Sell the house, give the backers their money back. That's the only way to recover any part of your reputation.
I'm not even so much interested in the full printer anymore, what I would really like is the controller board. It's schematic files, BOM, and firmware would be enough but even better those things plus an assembled working copy. Hell, I'd even pay extra for shipping to get it, and I'm loathe to throw good money after bad on projects like this that fail.
And Nils - from day one the project has been sold as being free open source and will never be closed source, so frankly your ideas about selling it off to third parties rather than open sourcing it are out of place here. There's likely not enough IP here to make back enough to fulfill rewards, and even if there were, it's hard to get full price (or even half price) when you're in a must-sell fire-sale type situation like this.
je ne suis pas anglophone et la traducteur faite par google est très mauvaise.
J'ai pu comprendre qu'il y avait détournement de fonds et début de récupération.
Mais quelles sont les conséquences exactes: c'est foutu ou il y a un espoir.
Si vous ne pouviez jamais fournir le matériel, mettez au moins à disposition des contributeurs tout ce qui a été fait (plans, notices, montages, programmes, etc)....
si quelque chose a été fait
Assuming this is all true, why did you wait so long to do something about it. What lawyer says "hey this guy did just commit grand theft and embezzled hundreds of thousands in company assets, let's send him a letter for a repayment plan"?? It's not like you need David's goodwill to get your money back. Not even sure why you are reaching out to backers for help. You had a company. Someone stole from it and confessed to doing so. You have heaps of evidence. Go to the police. Get a proper lawyer. Have his house, assets, belongings seized. Have blocks put on his future earnings. Get the MONEY BACK! I'm still bewildered by the choices and your lawyers advice. You took a picture of the house. That house belongs to Peachy Printer Inc. The bank that provided that construction mortgage will actually freeze funds and pay debts back in order of seniority and Peachy Printer Inc. is the senior debt holder if you had gone to a judge. Let a judge f*ck with David for the rest of his miserable life that he will most likely spend in a 5ft by 5ft cell.
It really looks like you went way out of your way to defend your "friend" and resolve this without getting him in trouble. What was your end goal, he repays the money and you let him off the hook? No jail time? He stole from you and your company, damaged your reputation and you were going to let him get off without as much as a citation from authorities? You have him confess to embezzlement on video and you didn't have police waiting outside? I just don't get it. Why jump through hoops to get your funds back while he continues to spend it when you could have just frozen his assets with a simple court order?????
I need the STL's for the printer parts and a parts list for the most recent iteration where can I find those?
I for one would consider an additional pledge if there was enough combined interest that we could get our printers.
Wow, 49 projects backed and the 2 biggest fails are 3d printers. Ibox Nano and now this.
Short version: Please release R&D notres and the BOM to the backers.
Well first, 10$ 100$ or 1000$, the amount doesn't have any impact on what was done here. For many months I came to realize I funded an R&D trip with no delivery target in sight. What is clear here is that this was an R&D team with no business or manufacturing experience. I would have said "but excellent communication" up until today...
Business = Basic controls over monetary issues and timeline. Manufacturing: At some point you have to freeze the design and ship, if you want to make it better, make another version later on.
I felt this project was a never ending R&D 3D printer TV subscription, not a product I've actually bought. I gave up on receiving something several months ago and I was suspecting something like "no more money" to come up, but never like this.
Bottom line the only way you can partially recover from this both from a crowdfunding and public image perspective is to release the BOM to the backers.
This is sad, you looked like a really nice and enthousiastic person but trust is lost and there's no way you will get another penny from kickstarter, Look at the ibox nano project and how backers reacted, and make the right decision.
Sad day for us, Canucks, and the entire crowdfunding scene...
I don't believe a word except that the money's all gone.
So you paid yourself over $200,000 in salary(!), and your partner spent his on a new house(!). It doesn't look like you raised this money except as a fraud. You are criminals, and should be prosecuted for fraud.
I was a backer of this project, and I hope to see you punished.
OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING give us all your designs and source code
It was one of his promises, as reiterated on "RepRap Forums"
> I am a cynic, life makes you that way,
> we will never go closed source heard that
> somewhere before.
> but I am prepared to give them the benefit of the
> doubt, time will tell.
> As for the patent thing, some companies have been
> riding the gravy
> train for too long, the whole patent thing needs a
Well I would ask that if I ever lost control of peachy printer and it went closed source
that there would be HUGE back lash from the community. In my opinion Using brand power to steel a global community's work it the ultimate betrail. It makes me feel sick to my stomach. Id like to call for a boy-caught on peachy ahead of time, if we ever close our source, Quit purchasing Peachy products immediately, clone Peachy under another name and let the community continue where it left off. Ill be the first to join the clone! Perhaps we can call it "Rotten Peaches Printer Project" or something like that. lol.
You can read more on my Ethics page.
Yes David appears to be at partial fault, but Rylan and Rinnovated Design also appear to be at fault and charges should be brought against all of them, and any others. The courts should decide the level of fault/guilt assigned to each party and all assets, including IP rights, should be sold to provide partial refunds to the secured and unsecured parties.
Kickstarter could try to ensure supporters become secured creditors in the future rather then end of the line unsecured ones..... maybe even provide independent auditing and financial over-site..........
I realize that there is risk involved in backing KS projects, so I'm not upset about the $100 I lost. I was just fascinated with the original design that used the audio port to generate the signal required to drive the laser. Quite honestly, I'd rather see that bit of information open-sourced.
That said, everything in the confession just sounds shady and crooked to me. The fact that this information was withheld since Nov 2014 while relatively positively project updates continued to be sent to backers does not support any level of transparency. I have no reason to believe that Rylan wasn't in on this all along.
But again, this is Kickstarter and we all knew the risks. It just has serious implications on future technology projects that really need and deserve funding, because we will always remember the many failed projects we have backed in the past.
to everyone saying to open source all information on how to build a peachy:
I think this should be only made available for backers, and under a non-profit license to build your own.
This is the IP of Rylan, so the only way he can make any money in the future in order to still deliver our rewards.
Open sourcing it for everyone will drastically reduce the chance of us getting our rewards.
And my assumption would be that way less than 1% of us backers have the technical expertise / interest / possibilities to build a peachy from just the open source info, so this wouldn't really help us. Open sourcing can be only a part of the solution.
Kickstarter is all about trust. Backers part with money (often very large sums of money) based on little more than a gut feeling that the project owners are honest and truthful. Mostly they are, and wonderful things happen. Sometimes they aren't and projects wind up with a bunch of complaining and grumbling and (mostly) empty threats of lawsuits. I've spent money on a couple of scams - and I've had dozens of projects end with a beautiful result.
That's a part of what Kickstarter is and does. Blaming Kickstarter isn't a productive approach. They tell you quite clearly up-front that this stuff happens - and if you back enough projects then sooner or later you WILL get bitten.
This case is a tricky one. We have two businessmen involved - the evidence seems clear that one is a scammer and the other is not.
I liked this project - but I thought it had technical flaws. So although I thought the project owner(s) were honest, so I reduced my pledge to $1.
I guess I was wrong on both counts - the project seems to work on a technical level and (if the copious amounts of evidence presented is true), 50% of the business owners are not honest.
I suspect that had they only earned the $50,000 that the project asked for, they'd have been right - that wouldn't have been enough for all of the technical work they needed to do - and it wouldn't have offered David the opportunity to steal it.
My current feeling about Kickstarters is that for "First Project" developers, I will not back them if the funding goes more than 100% over goal. When a project starts to push into the 1000% over goal range, then people get greedy - and stealing the money seems easier than finishing the project and owning a small-but-profitable business.
My advice to everyone here - don't back a first-timer project for more than $1 once it goes more than 100% over goal.
I actually think that Kickstarter should enforce that as a hard-and-fast rule and shut down pledging for all first-time projects when they hit 200% or something like that.
For Rylan - oh...god. This has to be devastating for you, personally. All you did wrong was to trust a friend - and that's what we're supposed to do, right? You still have a great product - and it's still yours (actually, it's *ALL* yours now!) - and that's an asset. Sadly, even though it seems to be the case that none of this is your fault, it's going to be tough to recover from this without a "Failed Kickstarter" label being attached to you.
David's house is an asset with value...so you should (in theory) be able to recover funds from him. But a half-finished house isn't worth very much. The question is whether the payments to the builder are sufficient to get it finished so that either he can raise a mortgage on it to pay Peachy back - or sell it to raise funds to pay you back. If the house can be completed - then I think you can get out of this mess...if it can't then probably both you and David are screwed - and I hope David will get a year or two in jail to think this over.
Either way, it's going to be a while before backers see their rewards - and they have to be prepared for that to never happen.
Should you put the Peachy Printer on the open market without delivering rewards first? Well, that's something that Kickstarter backers truly hate - but if the alternative is losing their pledge money entirely - I think backers should suck it up and accept that it's gonna be a year or two until they have a printer in their hands. Since I'm only a $1 backer - it's not my place to say.
Good luck to Rylan. I can only think that this is a valuable learning exercise. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, start all over again.
I should buy a boat.
Yeah, well, this comes as no surprise. I long ago gave up any expectation of seeing anything from this "project", and have been expecting exactly this sort of hand-wringing, self-serving cop-out for well over a year. Once it had run for over a year with nothing to show for it but youtube videos it began to stink, and I stopped watching the update videos years ago.
The time to have come clean was when the money was stolen. Basically every progress report since then has been camouflage to hide the facts of the matter. I don't even believe the story about selling the printers to non-backers "to recoup funds", but that's irrelevant. (Actually, I'd need to actually talk face-to-face with a backer holding a printer in his or her hands before I'd believe anything was built other than a sprawling house in Saskatoon).
The main thing is to make sure that if anyone spots these jokers in the Kickstarter wild again, to steer would-be backers over to this project so they can't perpetrate another fraud after the dust settles.
Maybe a link to the python vikings singing "Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam.
I'm sorry, backers and Kickstarter mods. Given the epic levels of mendacity demonstrated by the "entrepreneurs" here, this is as respectful and considerate as I can be.
A lot of people are thanking you for your transparency, but I don't feel that waiting 18 months is being very transparent at all. The failure of this project and lack or truthful updates simply means that there is no reason for me to support any crowdfunded project ever again. Fool me once.
In the meantime, while we wait for open source releases, I have invited five International News Agencies to look into this story, with the headline:
"Kickstarter Campaign Founder Confesses to Stealing $325,000 of Backers Money to Buy a House"
( I've also made backups of your website, videos and emails, just in case )
I like how David says, "I'll get through this," like he stole our money for cancer treatments. Good luck in jail. Also, I think it's ridiculous that you waited 18 months to divulge this information. At this point I am done this project and don't even want any future updates.
I also support Eike Decker's plan:
Step 1: Sort out legal stuff and let the police do their work.
Step 2: Open source the design and software as promised. This is then our reward and this is what we'll get for the money. We can then review the material on our behalf to regain trust in you. This campaign is then closed.
Step 3 (after 1+2): Make a new kick starter campaign. Give backers of this campaign a deduction of the full price if we still want the printer (if possible).