Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
Thank you, Steve and others, for being voices of reason on here! :-)
Agree with Steve. We have the beta of the books. It's worst if all the material are not revised and checked first. We can help the ks with advises and opinions, trying to be constructive.
Well said, Steve Ellis!
@Steve Ellis. I salute you :-) So true.
Steven: Applause. We’ve not bought a game, we’ve contributed towards having a game made, with the added bonus of getting a copy of it once it’s ready. (Of course, getting the added bonus of seeing supposed adults lying down and pounding the floor while whining “I want it nooooow!!!!” is worth a few bucks too).
I keep a spreadsheet of the projects I've backed over the past 7 years (currently 178 entries mostly RPG's) - about 160 (90%) didnt make their initial deadline under the backer pledge entry. Some were a month or two late, some over 4 years (usually Cthulhu ones have the longest delays for some reason). Punktown (due Aug 2013) is the longest one that I havent written off- a manuscript does exist. My first KSer never delivered (e20 - the creator lost their job, medical insurance and access to anti-depressants, so basically couldnt write) and I wrote it off long ago. only about 2 would I put down as fraud or bad faith in delivering and in both cases the Creator disappears and never answers messages on KSer. In many Kickstarters a subset of backers seem fueled by their outrage and frustration at the delay in delivering and become the only voices in the comments thread, which quickly become toxic and the creators stop showing up to answer questions. In pretty much all 160 cases, that venting of frustration doesnt do anything to speed up ultimate delivery- the most it achieved was maybe getting the creators to do monthly updates. Since that's already happening with Kult, my advice would be to embrace the reality of KSer delivery- it will be late, so dont sweat it or get worked up since it achieves nothing, and usually the creators are equally frustrated by the delays. Patience has been the best virtue to exercise, but if you are really unhappy, then ask the creator for a refund and withdraw from the conversation once you've got your money back.
I'm guessing there must be a formula for making tedious complaints. There is certainly no creativity involved.
Is there a formula on how many posts criticising the integrity of this team have to be made before the obligatory fluffy "I backed not amazoned so it's all good, go team go you're the best, I'd rather get quality in a decade than expect anyone to honor their word" post to mix things up?
Honestly wondering because it seems here (and other projects) that it's almost automated.
Robin and the team, looking forward to see the products. It's wonderful to see such great dedication and perfection to the final end. Has seen so many projects faltered just because they want to throw out their products fast as they can and with all those minor glitch and errors.
Looking forward to see future products in the years to come.
Now we’re talking Franco, that’s the spirit!!
We have been fooled by a bunch of scoundrels and liars who will never, in this timeline, deliver the product so: " I summon you, mighty lord of afterlife, Samael, be our savior and be summoned on this forum, take your revenge on the blood of Helmgast and all backers too!"
Meh I've given up now. Any interest or keen I had in the game is gone.
for me waiting for ALL the books is absolutely normal. I dont want to pay three times for the expedition costs. Im am worried about "some minor final layout work to be made" and "Just needs to be updated for a final edit round conducted over the past weeks and then combined into one book". Probably we will have something for Christmas (i hope)
Harmony Gold still has their rights until 2021, for what they *do* have the rights to (which, from a lot of what I've been reading isn't even 1/3rd of what they try to claim).
Palladium lost the lisence because they were sub lisenced under harmony gold who's contract to have the rights to it expired and wasn't offered for renewal.
For an example of how shipping costs (especially when done in waves) can murder a KS project, look no further than Palladium's Robotech Tactics game that recently resulted in a massive meltdown for the backers. The project was years over due, not just because of shipping (though splitting into multiple waves was a big factor as well), but because of *how* shipping was calculated got changed mid-process. Couple that with a number of problems in the actual production process (files for the models were incompatible, and had to be completely redone, among many other things), and you witness a project that had commanded over a million dollars in the KS campaign end up a disaster of a scale that resulted in Palladium losing their license to continue with any projects relating to that IP.
I understand the frustration here. But trust me, this isn't even close to a debacle yet.
Steve - I guess shipping it all in one go makes sense. Thanks for the insight, you seem to have seen a fair share of KS projects. I went for the pdf only as shipping to my country is expensive enough by itself. Personally, I'm just a bit disappointed with all the delays as my experience with the previous KS projects I backed was very positive. I hope the core book gets the priority and the pdf gets out relatively soon.
Perhaps it could be the reason Steve. I'm sorry if my message could be see rude but no, it was an opinion of how to help and trying to acclerate this. Maybe it could be great if they only focus on the pdf of core books and a couple of weeks after, the physical product or the rest of books. That was my original idea, to have the deinitive copy of core books in digital as soon as it could be posible. If I have to wait for supplemental material or physci copy to be cheaper for Helmgast, it's not a problem for me.
Laguna & Matej - I suspect one reason to send the books together is shipping. it may well be substantially more expensive to send out multiple waves of individual books rather than putting them in one larger parcel. Shipping costs internationally are the bane of most KSer creators (more than a few creators have lost money on the project due to not calculating it right) so sending the books together may be the only economical way of doing it without destroying the budget plan. I backed Unknown Armies 3 too, and as memory serves the only physical product to ship was the core books- all the stretch goal expansions are electronic.
another deadline not respected, of course there was no doubt that it happened, all this project was a delay ....
I completely agree with Matej, core book should be the priority now. Look, I've paid a lot of add-on and I want it... but if there are a lot of delays, it's not a bad idea if you finish core book first and the rest of add-on later. A lot of kicstarters do the same when they have delays.
I really don't understand why you chose to work on all the books at the same time. Source books and adventure books are useless without the core book. Why did you chose not to give the core book the exclusive priority and leave the rest for the later when you saw you couldn't handle the workload?
Also, many of the updates you were sending were completely impertinent to backers - you've been to a con or two, you promoted the game, which is all good and well, but it means nothing to me as a backer who already paid for the game, is well acquainted with it and only really wants to put his hands on the actual book.
I have to wonder if you looked at other KS projects and saw how they were handled. For example, Delta Green KS delivered the books in sequence - they chose to deliver the core book first so that everyone can start playing and get to know the game, and chose to publish source books and campaign books over a period of a few years. I think that was a great decision that will keep the game fresh for years. Also, they sent the PDFs as soon as they were ready, and the printed books came later due to the slowness of the printing and shipping processes. Releasing the PDFs and print books at the same time is pointless because why wait.
Then there was the Unknown Armies 3rd edition KS which delivered the books 3 months before due date. And they did a splendid job. Also, they offer all of the old books (the first two editions) for a meager price in OCR PDF so everyone that missed out on them could have bought them - I would have gladly paid for some of the old Kult books in pdf as they are nearly impossible to find, like 2nd edition core book, but you offered no such option. After that, they continued sending updates promoting similar or related projects that might be of interest to me. Now, that's how you handle a KS project. In contrast, your initial promise was to deliver the books by Christmas, only I can't even remember of which year.
Guys, having long experience of Cthulhu RPG kickstarters, no amount of anger or frustration makes the books come any faster. They will come when they come- and honestly I'd rather the publisher gets them right. I've already run games of K:DL based off the PDF sections that were released, and while having the book and other material in hand will be good, if you want to play games of it by a certain date, then you can already. There is clear evidence it is being worked on and polished, so while missed deadlines are frustrating, its still a live, viable kickstarter that will deliver what it promised, albeit later than anyone (us and publishers) would have wanted or expected. Frankly thats fairly standard for any RPG Kickstarter without a finalised text at the start, and with more than 3 Stretchgoals being met (my Rule of thumb is that every Stretch goal met adds about 1 month to delivery)
what happened with the schedule they have, this has to be delivered in December
I have to agree with the other backers. Another deadline another delay another reiunion of the kult team. Very very Sorry
Year? You’re hopeful. I don’t think we’ll have it before the end of the decade ;-)
Guys, it's useless being too excited. We won't receive anything before the end of the year...
Yep. It's not a missed deadline this time.... yet.
Wasn’t the communicated deadline for print mid May, and the pledge manager closes on the 11th of May? I don’t get this specific critique guys?
Will you ever deliver the books we paid for?
Shockingly Helmgast you have once again failed to deliver what you promised, another deadline missed and we STILL have nothing to show.
So no, the books aren't printing. There's no final PDF. And you've missed another deadline.
Hi! We will give you a more detailed update during the weekend when the core KDL team is meeting up at Swedish gaming convention Nordsken. Owner of the KULT trademark, Cabinet, will also attend so we'll have plenty of time to discuss release with them face to face.
We are very close to start printing. Final layout touches to the core rule book is being made and registers and other items which needed the full layout are being pulled together and finalised.
The Black Madonna is as previously announced more or less done, some minor final layout work to be made.
Taroticum & Other Tales have all quick play scenarios complete in terms of layout. Just needs to be updated for a final edit round conducted over the past weeks and then combined into one book. This will be done immediately when the Core Rule Book is ready for print.
The other items (player's guide, deck of cards, tarot deck, narrator screen) will follow thereafter. A lot of work is done on these items too, so it's more finishing touches, but they have to wait in line for AD to focus on the three main books. Print of these items is procured and so once we have print-ready files we will go to print instantly.
the KDL team
You estimated four weeks. You have had four weeks.
Have the books gone to the printers?
Where are the final PDFS?
@Gon Prados...downloading rewards won't take too long....
hey, where can I download all the rewards of this project? thanks!
So books go to the printers this weekend early next week, right? Or do you have another reason for delay?
From what I recall only the Elysium Edition was going to be printed in Limited Quantities
While the Enlightened Edition would not be in stores but available online.
I was under the impression the uncensored corebook would be available from Modiphius post Kickstarter.
Thats what was said early into the Kickstarter if i recall correctly.
David C.O - as I understand it Germany has some strong laws against using swastikas- potentially they are being told "Your book cant legally be sold in Germany unless you remove them". You call it stupid times, but I suspect its just different cultures that often have good reason for their different mores or laws.
@David you know by calling these times stupid you probably triggered several people who are the reason the edits are needed :)
Seriously? Imagery of nazi symbols is a problem?
We are living in stupid times.
@Oliver Summers: All versions of the Core Rule Book will be printed in limited editions. Most of these are already sold out. These will not be available in retail post the Kickstarter. So to guarantee that you get the books you want, please place your order in Pledge Manager by 11 May.
@Anders: As you have not pledged at one of the levels for delivery, it's uncertain how the system will handle that as not sure the right products gets connected. Place your order as you wish it to be, and we will make sure that you get the same as you had pledged on a level corresponding to the version of the core rule book you choose. However, please be aware that we may need to handle that manually and so that it will take extra time compared to other backers who have ordered core rule book to begin with.
@Steve Ellis: That is the information available. We are in the end following discussions not expecting that much to be changed. We are not waiting for final sign off for those areas flagged as "too much".
@Jaão: there will be no preview of Taroticum & Other Tales. That BETA print pdf of that is currently undergoing final review, to make sure we capture any mistakes/errors. Once the Core Rule Book final print pdf file is done by our AD, final tweaks to Taroticum & Other Tales is next in line.
How's the work goin on the Taroticum? Any forthcoming preview?
Will the deck of cards have specific ones for Advantages, Disadvantages and Dark Secrets? I think it would be great to have them byeach character while playing or to speed-up character creation.
@Steve: unfortunatley no, there is no other information. But you can discuss with Helmgast and the authors over there.
I logged in to the KDL backer forums, but couldnt see a detailed description of what is being chnged between the backers and public copies. Is it just this "he list of stuff isn't final but the main things are, as of now:
Core Rule Book (Kickstarter version): No edits.
Core Rule Book (Retail version): We are awaiting final feedback from our business partners on this, but generally the game needs to be "Mature" rather than "Adults Only" (to make a comparison to other media).
The Black Madonna: Mainly some imagery of Nazi symbols.
Taroticum and Other Tales: No edits we believe, following further discussions with our business partners. We are finalising this now to get confirmation of the final version to hopefully not have to censor/edit compared to what we want to have". ? I wouldnt describe that post as 'detailed', so is there a thread I'm missing? Which of the forums should I look at?
If I add the core book in the pledge manager, do I get the pdf version and the player´s guide on PDF as well? And the pdf stretch goals?
I backed 5 kr only to follow the updates.
Will the uncensored cover Corebook be available after the Kickstarter in Limited numbers?
Or do I now have to add it to my pledge
As it wont be available post KS?
@niels: Yes, all editions of the Core Rule Book will be shipped at the same time.
Thanks for the update. Love to hear things moving forward. Looking forward to get the big package :) like late Beltane gift.
So this includes shipping of special editions of the book i have spent money on around mid may?