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Range of 28mm miniatures for The Winter War between Finland and Soviet Russia of 1939-1940
428 backers pledged £57,021 to help bring this project to life.

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    1. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      More info on Aerosani models (which confirm the two model add by a rival company are two late for the Winter War) but unfortunately no photos.

      http://english.battlefield.ru/soviet-combat-snowmobiles.html

    2. Falk Kalamorz on

      According to the german wikipedia they used ZAGI-ANT-IV ( ЦАГИ-АНТ-IV constructed by Andrei Tupolew) and OSGA-NKL-6 (ОСГА-НКЛ-6 constructed by N. A. Andrejew).
      There were variants of the OSGA-NKL-6 for MedEvac (NKL-6S), staff (NKL-38) and transport of freight and fuel on airfields (NL-12).
      (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerosani#Produktion_verschiedener_Varianten)

    3. David Smith on

      My Google-Fu is not bringing much up about Aerosans, but according to Wiki, theOSGA-6 is the correct one to use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerosani

    4. Thomas Nissvik on

      Sablefox, they did indeed. Or actually, StuGs, not real tanks.
      Google sturmi.

    5. Gavin Tyler 2-time creator on

      Could anyone tell me: Is this the correct Aerosan for the period: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/63268 Weird looking thing... :)

    6. Missing avatar

      Jason Litchfield on

      Huh, I sort of assumed the AT Rifles would fall under the AT team, but you're quite right Helen. Good call.

    7. Netsuke on

      I'm surprised no body mentioned anti-tank rifles for the Finns and perhaps flamethrowers for the Soviets.

      Just some additional ideas.

    8. Missing avatar

      Jason Litchfield on

      Since I pitched the question in the first place, i'd obviously be most keen on the summer uniformed weapon crews. I could also make use of the field kitchen and POWs as scenario objectives.

      In fact they all look pretty useful. Good job.

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      deleted on

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    10. Netsuke on

      Hi Gav,

      Will there be miniatures for both sides that can be used as forward artillery observers and communications?

      Cheers,

      Helen

    11. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      @David - if you are talking the continuation war, then didn't the Finish have different tanks by then (a mix of captured Russian and German)?

    12. David Smith on

      Are all wargames not a what if? There is certainly no harm in allowing Finns to field tanks they actually had. Besides Britain could easily ave fought the Finns instead of just airstriking them, can see my mates commandoes involved already :)

    13. David stiedl on

      Always admired the Finns for their amazing resistance but did not know about the model cajander or the winter war movie. Thanks for the info. Quite a community starting here. My vote would be for the civil guard (for realism) and the Aerosan {for fun, how to stop it flying off the table).Also looking forward to the Finnish listing for Chain of Command. j

    14. Michael Blair on

      I would be quite keen to see the Aerosan, I am not sure how useful they would be but I have a soft spot for the things.
      POWs are an interesting idea. Good scenario fodder I would think.

    15. Scott MacLachlan on

      Well, I guess we already know where I stand on the field kitchen. :) Do want! I mean, more fighting types are great, but ultimately they need something to fight over, and rarely has the humble field kitchen been more important than here. Really adds a unique feel to the whole thing, I think.

      I also support the idea of civil guard. While the winter camo designs are great, it would be nice to mix in some not-so-well-equipped units. Loving this!

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    17. Gavin Tyler 2-time creator on

      Hi everyone - thanks for your comments so far this is extremely useful - I think I have a good idea what to do. I will work out the details and let you know before I post. I am still working on the add-ons that will go live this evening.

      Thanks,
      Gav

    18. Missing avatar

      Barrie MacDonald
      Superbacker
      on

      I think the Field Kitchen is a great idea as apart from the experience and fortitude of the Finnish Soldier to perform so well it was the it was the logistics which functioned even in the extreme winter conditions. Each section had a sled and a ten man erectable plywood "tent" allowing shelter and warmth when the Soviets were freezing to death in the open. Not so exciting as Soldiers and Guns but a crucial part of the kit. Great for objectives etc. I intend using these figures in Chain of Command (Two Fat Lardies)

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      deleted on

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    20. Missing avatar

      Lachlan on

      Did I forget to mention the Lahti Anti-tank rifle team - I know only 2 made it to the front in the Winter War but maybe it could be a 'special purchased add on Kickstarter only one per customer deal'!! ;)

    21. Missing avatar

      Lachlan on

      @David - Scarab used to stock them (round & hex version) but I got my 3 from Brigade Games in the US

      Yes the Vickers were a disaster - but they're not dissimilar to the T-26 which was why I thought it would be a possibility - They'd also be useful for a continuation war Panssarikomppania - They fielded over a dozen rebuilt Vickers tanks (T-26E) with their 70+ captured T-26s.

      So if you don't make them at least give the Finn pledges the option of adding a T-26 to their pledge!!!

    22. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      ...turret and top *deck*

    23. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      @Bill - I agree with your stance. I'll happy make up rules for anything. However I know many wargamers who would find that unacceptable. As a commercial venture, it probably makes sense to sculpt models that people will want to buy; and if there is a large population who won't buy something because it is not in rules X then you are taking a commercial risk. For in-hourse sculpted troops that may be acceptable; it may be more of a concern when outsourcing a large and complex model. I don't know. Luckily I don't run a miniatures company ;-)

      @Samuli - I agree that finish armour would be more for "what if" games. It wouldn't be high on my list for that reason. If people want if for its static defense use, I wonder if the best thing might be just to do the turrets and top desk and leave the representation of dug in hull to the purchaser. I am not even convinced I think that is a good idea.

    24. David Smith on

      @Lachlan Who are these other manufacturers of the FT-17 please (UK), I've only found Old Glory so far.

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      deleted on

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    26. Falk Kalamorz on

      Here is an interesting article about the finnish Vickers:
      http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/TANKS2.htm

      Apparently there were only 16 armed Vickers in Finland of which 13 were operational and only 8 made it into the first battle.
      Half of them were lost in this first engagement and only one was recovered (but never repaired). In total 8 out of 13 tanks were lost in combat during the war.

    27. Samuli Salovaara on

      Forgot to add that after the Battle of Honkaniemi the Vickers tanks were only used as fire support and even then maybe one or two at a time and behind the lines. And that only lasted for the few weeks before the war ended.

    28. JonLenine on

      how about an ampulomet team (molotov launcher) as a AT add on

    29. Samuli Salovaara on

      Finnish armor in the winter war is more of an what-if type of unit than anything that really took part in any fighting. The main task of the amored battalion was gathering captured soviet tanks and taking them to depots and repairing them for further use. The only time that any tanks were really used as anything else than dug down turrets was in the battle of Honkaniemi and even there only 5 Vickers 6-tons took part as the rest had broken down on the way.

      The main reason why there was no finnish armor present ever was that most of the tanks had been bought without weapons to save money and were only being refitted when the war began. Refitting was only completed by the end of the war and the training of the crews had only just begun when the war ended. Battle of Honkaniemi was an exception and even there the crews had little or no training and couldn't achieve much.

      Renault FT-17's of the 1st and 2nd armored companies took part in some fights but only as dug-in turrets, because it was quickly noticed that their guns couldn't penetrate any enemy armor. Most of them were quickly lost when the army began retreating.

      So basically please don't do finnish armor but concentrate on something that was really used in the war :)

    30. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      Yep, I meant to add that the Aerosan RV6 and the NKL-26 are done in 1/56th scale. The OSGA-6 is a visually different vehicle - it dosn't look so sledge like, it looks more like a helicopter body. Don't know if someone else doing them is enough to rule them out.

      Out of the Vickers 6 ton, FT-17 and Aerosan, I would go for the Vickers - it probably has the best commercial prospects and is the one I suspect which could most easily be used in a game.

      One of the big questions would be support for the vehicles by the rules sets. If they are not supported then they is less value in owning (they become 'fluff' / objective markers).

    31. Missing avatar

      Lachlan on

      I second the idea of alternate officers/NCOs, but I'm not fussed on irrelgulars. I love the idea of the field kitchen :) The Aerosan has already been done by other companies.

      What I'd love to see is a Lahti Anti-tank rifle team for the Finnish - No-one does those?? Then there's always 20mm Madsen AA gun converted for AT...

      Some early Finnish Armour is a MUST - Vickers 6-ton tank (with Bofors 37mm AT guns - that later became known as the T-26E) & Mark 4/Model 33 Vickers-Carden-Lloyd tankettes/carriers to throw against the T-26s. The FTs aren't important as several other companies do them and they were all dug in and used as bunkers by the Finns anyway - maybe you could do them as an emplacement...

    32. SableFox
      Superbacker
      on

      Like many on this KickStarter I could say ‘yes please’ to all the stretch goals suggested. However, to be a bit more critical (of myself) in my choice, I’d most like to see:

      1) Any missing infantry figures required to make up a platoon according to the popular rules

      2) Any optional infantry troop types allowed by the popular rules; flamethrowers and AT rifles sounds like a good choice for a start. Russian skiers could be another possibility.

      3) A good argument for Model Cajander troops have been made. How are these different from generic resistance fighters? If they have a definite Finish/Winter look and feel I’d say they are essential

      4) Soft-bodied transport which would make a good game objective; having a removable AA gun or rocket launcher sounds great. A vehicle that either side could field would obviously double the potential buyers

      5) A field kitchen sounds like a great bit of battlefield ‘fluff’ and could easily be used as an objective

      6) Some form of sled transport – seems a common and good option.

      7) Aerosan OSGA-6 (but see below)

      Of the suggested, the ones I would drop if forced to are: Heads, Summer uniforms, POWs and Aerosan; and existing troops in new poses (I think 12 varieties of rifleman should be enough, but more poses are always nice).

      I’ve already suggested the Vickers 6 ton tankette for the Finish, and the BT (BT-2, BT-5 or BT-7) for the Russians, though I am not sure how many tanks you would want in a 28mm skirmish game. Though both the Vickers and FT-17 tankettes are great vehicles there was only one mixed battalion in the Winter War – but they might interest those with forces of other nationalities (and hence be good commercially).

      On the Aerosan (since I suggested it). I think the photo you are showing is the NKL-26 which started manufacture in 1942. A bit late for the winter war: it is still a nice model though. I believe the OSGA-6 and the NKL-6 were the two military versions available (I linked to an article on what I believe is the OSGA-6 – which is a bigger 4 man vehicle).

      I am sorry for being a bit vague. I don’t know a lot about this conflict and I don’t own any of the applicable rules (the nearest I come is 15mm WW2 North Africa). I am keen to start gaming this conflict and it would be nice to have as flexible a skirmishing force as possible.

    33. David Smith on

      @Bill Roy. yup, later might be better as even now, I don't know how he will get this lot finished this year, could even do some as purchase add-on's for a later release.

    34. Falk Kalamorz on

      I will use the miniatures for Bolt Action so my preferences seem to be a bit different from the rest...

      Irregular Fighters/Militia - Big YES!

      I would appreciate Officers/NCOs with alternative weapons, i.e. pistol and SMG.

      Spotter teams, Forward Observers and anti-tank rifles would be cool, too.

      I don't know if flamethrowers were used, if yes, I would like some.

      Early war Russian tank crews (mounted and unmounted) would be nice.

      More Rifle sections are always welcome and an easy stretchgoal.

      Maybe objective markers? Russian/ Swedish AA guns? Russians in winter gear?

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    36. Dan @ Mike Bravo Miniatures on

      Another for the list - Summer Uniformed HQs

    37. David Smith on

      Just done a little research and it looks like I (or rather the Finns :) ) need a Vickers 6 ton or Ft-17 tank. These are pretty rare in 28mm, so could be a good opportunity. http://www.wwiivehicles.com/finland/

    38. Danny O'Hara on

      GAZ Truck with AAMG option would be good for me, but everything (except the POWs and possibly the Aerosan) are sounding great! Well done to Gav for doing this KS, and to all the backers putting their money where their mouth is and actually supporting it. Real "community" feel on this one!

    39. David Smith on

      Although things like kitchens, heads and prisoners sound great as objectives or scenery, my first wishes must be towards more troop types to aid playing the game.

      1) Although I'm not collecting the Soviets (yet :) ), options to be able to field the Chain of Command Platoon list although this should be doable without extra sculpts, maybe an upgrade pack?

      2) Engineers and flamethrowers, SVT - 38 semi-automatic riflemen and anything else listed in the rules.

      2a) Whatever extras the rules give us for the Finns when the list comes out (hopefully this weekend)

      3) Summer options for all the Finnish models, this then might persuade me to collect 2 Finnish forces :)

    40. Benoit on

      Thanks Gav.
      Finnish Militia, Field Kitchen and Aerosan seems the most interesting for me.
      Benoit

    41. Missing avatar

      Graham Frederick Trickey on

      Field Kitchen spot on as are Finnish Militia.You would have a unique selling point with the field kitchen which I can see gracing many a VBCW army.Also a great nostalgia piece reminding me of the one Tony Barton built for the Great Asparagus Wars fought by a York based group in the 1970 ties.I can see a great many on sales for that particular model.

    42. Thomas Nissvik on

      Right, thanks to Mikkos youtube link below, if found a news reel from the battles around Suomussalmi and Raatte. It has loads of suggested stretch goals:
      One-horse sledge, the AA truck I talked about, the captured artillery tractor the boys are joyriding, field guns, horse carts and more. And yes, at 6.15, those are loaves of bread frozen rock solid.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch…

      I'll provide translation of the Swedish text if anyone is interested.

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      deleted on

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    44. Jehan on

      As I still don't know if I want to play Winter War or Continuation War (especially the Battle of Tali-Ihantala), summer uniformed support and artillery crews is my first choice. But I must say that Finnish Civil Guards and more heads for conversions would be great too !

    45. Dan @ Mike Bravo Miniatures on

      I'd add my vote for the Model Cajander, Summer Uniformed Support and Field Kitchen.

      Heads for swaps are always a nice touch.

      Rather than POWs, what about a casualty pack for those rules systems that need such markers? I guess we could use those in the medic packs depending on the pose, but some outright 'dead' models would be very useful.

    46. Missing avatar

      Mikko K on

      My vote goes for Civil Guard. As few guys have said, many of the combatants were not in any kind of uniform, in my opinion adding those minis within the platoon would portrait the troops more accurately.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch…

    47. Paul Hanscombe on

      I really like the Aerosan, but then it just looks cool (parden any pun to do with cold, snow etc!)

      I too would prefer more combat troop variation, maybe extra infantry to match the Chain of Command Russian lists previously mentioned:)

    48. Thomas Nissvik on

      I third the suggestions for "Model Cajander". I think we also need to explain as Maxxon and Samuli does that this is not Dads Army, these regular combat troops sent into battle with guns and an enamel button. They would be fighitng alongside the unifomed troops.
      http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/577193-4/Malli+Cajander
      http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8070/m39furcaps.jpg
      The movie Talvisota is an excellent reference and inspiration.
      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098437/combined

      Another suggestion for stretch goal is a truck with a detachable AA MG set, like so:
      http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/galleries/trucks/AA/M4AA.JPG
      http://i.imgur.com/KNUQCu8.jpg
      With a detachable AA and perhaps options of gear, cover or troops in the back, such a truck could be used throughout the war on both sides and all through the Continuation war as well.

    49. maxxon on

      Much of the regular Finnish army in the Winter War was not in uniform... or rather they were wearing what we call "Model Cajander" -- which means the soldiers were issued a button for their cap (cap not included), a belt, pants and a rifle. All the rest was their own civilian gear.

      Once the deliveries of the snow camo started, that tends to hide the issue a little bit, but it was never issued to everybody and not everybody wore it all the time. Thus a random selection of non-uniformed troops is never really out of place in a Finnish force.

      Cajander was our prime minister who expressed happiness in summer 1939 about not wasting government money buying equipment for the army...