Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
@Rocky Mountain Way, glad the Neil Young hi res worked out for you. It is amazing how easily the record label was able to part the sea of red tape so anyone, anywhere could download music. If only music was always these prices and so easily accessible. The labels might be surprised how much more money they would make.
Your Neil Young vinyl should sound great on the Mag-Lev.
Rocky, cool. My Mag Lev comes in October
Thank you very much for the heads up. I am a huge fan of NY and had to take this opportunity as I agree it won't last. Even though I already have them in vinyl and CD I now have 7 x NY albums in Hi Res. There's nothing obsessive about me! I am in the enviable position of now having a sound system that cannot be improved. The Hi Res is a delight to listen to. Especially really loud.
Interesting the Warner site is available to all countries and I was able to pick NZ from a drop down menu. The files had to be unzipped after download but no problem there.
I also have a mint copy of Everyone's Rockin on vinyl - now that is rare! I can't remember why it was mostly unplayed but will find out when my MagLev turntable arrives in October.
Thanks again Doug. Most appreciated & best regards.
@Siltech, I find that flac converted to WAV still sounds better than straight flac on my system. I will rip a WAV directly from cd and compare to the flac rip converted to WAV.
@Rocky Mountain Way, congrats on joining the hi res train. Don't know if you are a Neil Young music fan? If so check out his Warner record website. Many of his hi res albums are on sale (24-192) for $9.99! Bought Psychedelic Pill for $12.99. Amazing prices for hi res. May be a test. Also no region restrictions. People have been buying from Europe. Check it out.
RMW. The reason the selection on HDTracks does not appear as great as that on PMW is HDT sells only Hi-Res music, whereas PMW sold CD quality stuff as well. And yes, the fact it doesn't discriminate on the location of your credit card is also a big plus
Agree on your point on provenance though
But get used to it. The Pono store isn't coming back. The appearance of the CEOs music on iTunes has virtually guaranteed that
I am a Hi Res alien no more!
I have just downloaded HOLA vpn which is a Google Chrome extension and allows me to appear that I have a USA address. So I joined HDTracks, gave my USA address as my son's and bought a few albums. I must say they sure sound good.
The problems are : HDTracks has a poor selection compared with PMW; the albums are expensive as I have bought stuff I really like that I already have from CD's; there is no provenance so we have to just accept what they offer. For instance 'Blonde on Blonde' has had many remasters so which one are they offering?
Interestingly once I have the Hola running HDTracks assumes I am resident in the US, but PMW's criteria was the country of the credit card, so even with Hola I couldn't purchase from PMW.
The cool thing about Hola is once I have finished I can just turn it off.
The best way is always the last choice... Long Live Pono
If you transfer Wav from a cd flac file.
-- the flac file took less time to rip, bitrate from 1411 to around 800 to 900.
--A FLAC FILE TRANSFER TO WAV IS NOT BETTER THAN THE FLAC SOURCE. THE TRANSFER FROM FLAC TO WAV IS JUST A CONVENIENCE FOR ONES EQUIPMENT OR DESIRES.
--I read about this, and the true, proper, and Best WAV file is from direct source, Not FLAC ripped Copy.
-- MY FRIEND, you may have to forget WAV transfer and do direct WAV rip from source.
--Now, direct WAV rip, and then Flac transfer is okay, since WAV is exact uncompressed copy of source.
Note: Sizes of FLAC files can vary greatly depending on music dynamics, conversion tool used, what format the file was converted from and Level of compression used. The information here is general and currently being revised for more accuracy.
@Rocky Mountain Way, except for PMW automatically downloading PonoMusic in a special file, what did you find harder about JRMC? I was surprised that flac 5 is default but Pono uses 6! No biggie, just interesting.
I love dbPoweramp. So easy to use. My fave CD ripper.
Next @Rocky Mountain Way and @Siltech you have to start ripping DVD-A and DualDisc. I use dvdaudio extractor for that. It is also easy. Won't find cover art though. I rip, import into JRMC then have it find cover art. Works great. Free hi res music!
@Siltech, intriguing question about CD to WAV vs CD to flac to WAV. I haven't actually tried this experiment all the say through. I have taken files that were originally ripped to flac and converted them to WAV. They sounded better than the flac. I haven't compared this CD to Flac to WAV to a straight from CD WAV. My guess is the "direct" WAV may be sightly better.
Years ago (before Pono) I ripped most of my CDs to flac. Did this for a lot of reasons. 1. Experts said this was easier to keep cover art. Easy is good - not a computer wiz. 2. Experts said there was no difference in sound. I converted a few flac to WAV using dbPoweramp. WAV was better. So the whole 300GB hard drive full of flac had to be converted. Took hours! Now ever CD gets ripped as WAV and flac. Dual inventory. WAV for Oppo 105, computer, and car. Flac for portables and PonoPlayer. With the better M&J MJ2 hybrid dynamic / electrostatic headphones, the Pono may be reverting to WAV. Sometimes it sucks to be an audiophile.
To Siltech & Doug
Thanks for the heads up re FLAC files. Pono Vault won't rip CD's for me. It just shuts down when I click Rip. Aaargh. I tried JRiver and didn't like it. PMW was fine .
I now use dBpoweramp CD Ripper. I'm trying the 21 day trial. I Set the path to a created desktop file called 'dBpoweramp' and there are lots of options for ripping. I chose default FLAC 5 as suggested by Doug and it rips fine. You may have to choose the art but it does link with the album. Then I side load to the Pono.
I have another file called FLAC albums which holds all my music and I add the ripped album to that. Then when I open Pono Vault they all appear.
I also keep a memory stick with all the FLAC albums on it as it took a lifetime to rip 150 or so albums just in case a meltdown occurs.
It is a bit of a process but it does work. I'm hoping Pono Vault will sort out the bugs but if not I can live with this.
I've ripped a few CDs in wav mode, uncompressed. From Pono via Cardas Parec XLR, to Pass Labs INT-60. The sound it definitely better, faster, more pinpoint, and seems more natural and quicker. Sounds pretty good.
I did as you say and transferred a flac music file to wav on JRiver, and it worked. I appreciate your info, and feels bit dumb. Anyway, the bitrate proves this. HOW does transferring the lower flac bitrate to higher bitrate wav possible? Do you think cd rip to wav, is exact same quality as flac to wav transfer? My gut says cd rip to wav is the best, since flac file was already compressed before wav transfer. What do you think? I've learned a lot from you mate.
@Siltech you are correct. Flac is loss lessy compressed. In other words nothing is thrown away. Everything can be put back to be bit perfect. Apparently tests prove this is so. Files that are encoded with flac can be decoded and the bits all match. Bit perfect! So why do they sound different than WAV on many components? The theory is having to decode flac in real time, during playback, causes some kind of problem while listening.
Problem is my quad core W7 computer running into the Oppo 105 dac sounds the worst playing flac. The Oppo sounds better playing the flac files from an external hard drive or thumb drive. There is no way the Oppo has more processing power than a quad core desktop computer! Yet, both sound better playing WAV.
The PonoPlayer is the first thing I have heard that makes it very, very close. There are numerous posts on the Naim forum about flac vs WAV.
WAV will handle cover art, BUT there are different ways to do it. Unfortunately one way was never standardized. My Pono and Oppo will not display cover art if it is in a seperate jpeg folder. PonoMusic World (now gone) and JRiver Media allow embedding the art work in the file. You have to go in and select this. If you do this the WAV files show cover art on my PonoPlayer, Oppo 105, and even the 2017 Mazda 3 car. If you can't find the setting let me know. I will look it up and post.
Would love to know what you think of flac vs. WAV, on your equipment. JRiver will convert the flac files to WAV for you. I have every album stored on my hard drive in both formats.
Enjoy the music
Your probably right, Wav uncompressed, and copies identical from source. Therefore volume will have same level as source. Thanks again Doug. I guess I was trying to save time copying and HD Memory. They say in theory, Flac suppose to be the same. Now Only Wavvvvvvv
I'll try Wav music files. These files are lossless, uncompressed and use more memory than Flac music files? Is this correct? I guess main diff between Wav and Flac are file compressed or not. Can Wav files be tagged like Flac? Thanks Doug. Ailtech
See you got JRIVER set to flac. Now they will play on PonoPlayer. Think JRiver had something to do with APE format. So they set it as default. JRIVER isn't set up specifically for the PonoPlayer. Pono took JRMC and tweaked it for their player.
They could sound different because there are different levels of flac. Think they go from 0 (least compression) to 8 or 9 ( most compression). All are supposed to be loss less, but I think they sound different. The original Pono LE players came with their albums at flac 0. PonoMusic Store downloaded at flac 6. Set JRiver accordingly.
I find flac to sound worse on the Oppo 105. Thus I use JRiver to convert to WAV. The Pono is a closer call. I still think it might sound a little better using WAV.
I do not use volume leveling. Tend to play an album at a time. So I set the volume myself. Volume leveli g is more for playlists and random shuffle.
Hope that helps
Just Curious? Do you use setting of Volume Levelling in Pono settings? Randy Rivers 30 day trial has this setting too, but he calls it something else. If one uses this, would it be better to use setting from Pono. I read somewhere that little noise is introduced when volume level is activated. I'm not sure cd rip in flac sounds as good with original Randy River on Pono Music World. Is it possible this 30 day Randy River trial with same flac setting as original Pono Music World, doesn't sound as good? It should sound same, but I'm not sure my ears agree. � SILTECH
I went in options and set cd rip default from ape file to flac file. Why did Randy River have ape as default, since Pono doesn't like it. Sorry, if this is mentioned on any forums, I don't follow them. TESTED, AND NOW IN FLAC MODE= PERFECT. Siltech
Please help. I downloaded the 30 day trial of Randy River on computer. I can rip cd no problem. When I try to transfer to Pono player, it says it won't support it. I noticed that the rip copy shows as a ape file, and not flac. With the old Pono Music World, all my cd rips showed as flac files. What can I do? If I can't correct this, my Pono is useless too me. Once again, new free 30 day software shows my rip cd as ape file. This ape file will not transfer on Pono. I assume this is why it won't load in Pono. How can I make the trial Randy River rip cd in a flac file. Please help, I appreciate it. Thanks, SILTECH
The Mitchell & Johnson headphones I have been using with the PonoPlayer just got a super review from Headfonics.
Love these headphones.
Interesting that the tech rumored to be used in the new Pono streaming platform, is used by Classics On Line. This month they announced their tech partner had abandoned the platform. Hmm. The start of Pono streaming?
I saw Bruce last week in Sydney. Still amazing!! Enjoy
Whatever happens it has been a great journey. Some of us were not allowed into the kingdom of heaven anyway.
I only have two Hi-Res albums which came with the Pono - it seems to me the sound is softer. As Neil said at the start, the quality of the original recording is the most significant and it would be hard to improve on the sound I get with 44/16 recordings on the Pono with balanced mode - or if I feel the need to spend an extra $30 to achieve it.
I mainly listen to 60's & 70's rock - modern recordings like Blue & Lonesone are certainly much louder - recorded to maximise the sound for low quality listening devices.
We bought in for the player and the store concept only came later. A business model where most of the market don't care about quality and don't want to pay anything is a hard ask.
The sound from the Pono is something to enjoy - better only by the live concert.
I'm off to see Bruce Springsteen in a week - it's a perfect summer!
I still maintain the death knell will be in march. The new software was a stopgap as the Jriver licence had run out its all over bar the time of death
Sad really, I had the pono out playing this week and the soundly is a thing of beauty. The shape, UI and screen quality not so much
No idea when we will have a new download store, Siltech. Pono wants to start the streaming store first. Hope it is soon.
When can we buy downloads for pono?
Siltech, I'm jealous. Minutes would be so nice. Price I pay for living in the woods.
I can download a hi Rez album in minutes.
Siltech, I don't know what my internet speed is. It is fast compared to dial up, but still fast. Just don't think DSL is very quick. To download a 24/96 album it is normally about 3 hours. The plus of PonoMusic was a drop didn't mean starting the whole album over. I had that trouble with BandCamp. Took 5 or 6 times to get a complete album.
Correction - my upload speed isn't 10, but 20 Mbps with 250 Mbps download. Siltech
Cool. What's your broadband speed? My download speed is 250 Mbps with upload speed of 10 Mbps. We can go up to 1 Gbps with upload speed of 50 Mbps. Your setup has to be compatible on a AC router, too access these speeds.
Can't wait for my Mag Lev Turntable in black with gold feet.
Ha ha Siltech, you have lots of Siltech wire in your system. I missed all of it on your previous post. Thanks for the clarification. A fine set up.
Haven't done any streaming. My Oppo has a firmware update to make MQA possible. Living in the boonies limits my broad band speed so much. I doubt it is possible to stream hi res. Might try the free demo at a later date.
You have awhile before the Mag Lev arrives. Have patience.
Touch and open below link.
This is the same on previous post.
MQA now from Tidal streaming on desktop and MQA Certified Dac. As of now, they have over 30.000 tracks, and growing. This format may soon hurt a lot of companies. HI REZ STREAMING. Check It Out -
Mag Lev will be August or September 2017.
I mentioned my cables, along time ago on this form. I have a PS Audio AC12 plug into 20 amp dedicated line. The dedicated line cable to fuse panel is 8 gauge Cardas. Output of P10 to Pass Labs INT-60 connected via Siltech Royal Signature Ruby Mountain II power cable, output of P10 to Bryston BCD-3 connected via Siltech Royal Signature Ruby Hill II power cable, Bryston BCD-3 connected to Pass Labs INT-60 via Siltech Royal Signature Princess interconnect XLR to XLR, P10 output to Pono Player connected via Cardas Parsec interconnect two mini to XLR cables fully balanced, and output of Pass Labs INT-60 connected via Siltech Royal Signature Prince speaker cable-spade to spade to Wilson Audio Yvette speakers. Siltech
Siltech, guess you saw Sprint bought 33% of Tidal? That will be interesting to watch. Keep us updated on your Tidal experiences.
The Pass/Bryston/Wilson combo has to sound great. Killer equipment. How long do you have to wait for the Mag Lev turntable? Can't help noticing you didn't mention any Siltech cabling?
Great New Year to you!
I'm trying the Tidal HD audio, 16/24 uncompressed. It's a free 30 day trial period. I'm streaming Tidal from my iPhone, via Bluetooth to Marshall Acton powered amp. I'm blowed away. I can't believe this inexpensive setup sounds this good. I tried hard wire connecting Tidal output of iPhone ( using iPhone internal dac ), via iPhone mini jack to RCA plugs to Pass Labs. It sounds okay, but my mini to RCA cable isn't very good. If I decide to keep Tidal steaming, I'll definitely have to upgrade my mini to RCA plugs cable. Maybe a Cardas Parsec cable, as on my Pono. The cable for Tidal won't be balanced like on Pono, but RCA connectors.
I'm still breaking in my new Byston BCD-3 source player. So far it's sound is very impressive.
HAPPY NEW YEAR, MATE. Siltech
Just to be clear on this the Pono Vault only plays music that you bought from the Pono Site.
What is the point other than the clueless Clown Executive Orifice Neil's feeble attempt to get suckers to give him more money.
Glad i didn't install it and never installed PMW either.
using winamp for my music player works great and plays anything you throw at it. Rip great as well.
good thing the world has Lemmings what would Neil do without them.
@Robert Ryan, not sure there are screen shots. Magic_Randy does tell how to do what you want. Make sure you have the newest version of JRMC.
https://www.ponomusic.com/0D515000021aFXj if you have questions ask in this thread.
Good luck. Don't letthis get you down.
Would you mind posting the link to the jriver tutorial with the screen shots? I was unable to find it. Thanks very much.
Thank you, Doug, but it is not enough for me. I've been playing with it for a while today. It started downloading all the music on my pc automatically. I stopped it and tried again but could not find just the pono material in my files. I am seriously not good at these things. At least I used to be able to call Pono, when they picked up their phone, and have someone walk me through things. Now I don't think I even have that since I'm trying to work with the jriver program. The least they could have done was leave my library so I could rip cds to the player and download stuff from HD Tracks. Very disappointed.
@Robrrt Ryan, here you go: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,108680.msg752634.html#msg752634
Don't give up. You will be back to listening soon. "Same as it always was" - The Talking Heads. Hang in there.
@Robert Ryan, just download the JRiver Media program. It is a parent version of PMW. It works the same way. There are even different looks to pick. One is so close to PMW that many can't tell them apart.
Your PMW has been automatically updating itself the whole time you have used it. All of this will transition automatically into JRiver with a couple clicks. Do you visit the main Pono site forums? If so JRiver has posted an easy to follow tutorial (with screen shots) to do this. Also member Magic_Randy has been helping people. They can have you back to normal in minutes. Don't panic.
Thank you, Doug. I appreciate the help. I will probably try to work with jriver.
I think I am about done with Pono. I like the sound of the player but at what cost in money and time? I'm not a computer guy and I'm not keen on working through all these things. It's not fun for me. It's ridiculous that PMV can't play other hi res music and can't accommodate ripping cds. I had something that worked fine for me (after a not insignificant amount of time spent) and now I can't even access that. I'm tempted to call it a day and just use the player with the songs I have on it now.
@Siltech, I downloaded Pono Music Vault. It works to just play Pono bought music on the computer. It isn't able to play other hi res music yet.
PMV also won't do many of the other things PMW did. CD ripping isn't working correctly. This will be fixed. Don't know if it will ever be able to do format conversions. It is designed to be easier and simpler than PMW/JRiver Media.
@robert Ryan, all your PonoMusic Store downloaded music will be in a Pono folder. If you download JRiver Media there is a way to turn off auto import. This stops everything from being imported. Then you can point at the Pono folder and only that will be imported. I haven't done this with JRiver so can't tell the exact steps. There is a thread that shows how on ponomusic.com forums. I did do this with the new PonoMusic Vault and it worked fine.
What's the easiest way for me to get all my pono music in one place the same way that it was on pono music world? Do I have to individually select and move it into the new program? I've got thousands of songs on my pc. Most are in lower than cd quality, so I don't want to put those in the new pono program. And I'm not sure that I can differentiate between the 2 easily. If I install the new software will it automatically pull in what I had before?
Doug, what did you do?
If Pono Vault beta isn't your cup of tea, download the 30 day free JRiver Media (PMW was based on it). With the MYLITTLEPONY code it can be bought for $38. Anyway, the saved PMW data will load into JRiver. Playlists, everything.
Happy New Year to everyone.