We were wrong

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Dear everybody,

On Wednesday morning Kickstarter was sent a blog post quoting disturbing material found on Reddit. The offensive material was part of a draft for a “seduction guide” that someone was using Kickstarter to publish. The posts offended a lot of people — us included — and many asked us to cancel the creator’s project. We didn’t.

We were wrong.

Why didn’t we cancel the project when this material was brought to our attention? Two things influenced our decision:

  • The decision had to be made immediately. We had only two hours from when we found out about the material to when the project was ending. We’ve never acted to remove a project that quickly. 
  • Our processes, and everyday thinking, bias heavily toward creators. This is deeply ingrained. We feel a duty to our community — and our creators especially — to approach these investigations methodically as there is no margin for error in canceling a project. This thinking made us miss the forest for the trees.

These factors don’t excuse our decision but we hope they add clarity to how we arrived at it.

Let us be 100% clear: Content promoting or glorifying violence against women or anyone else has always been prohibited from Kickstarter. If a project page contains hateful or abusive material we don’t approve it in the first place. If we had seen this material when the project was submitted to Kickstarter (we didn’t), it never would have been approved. Kickstarter is committed to a culture of respect.

Where does this leave us?

First, there is no taking back money from the project or canceling funding after the fact. When the project was funded the backers’ money went directly from them to the creator. We missed the window.

Second, the project page has been removed from Kickstarter. The project has no place on our site. For transparency’s sake, a record of the page is cached here.

Third, we are prohibiting “seduction guides,” or anything similar, effective immediately. This material encourages misogynistic behavior and is inconsistent with our mission of funding creative works. These things do not belong on Kickstarter.

Fourth, today Kickstarter will donate $25,000 to an anti-sexual violence organization called RAINN. It’s an excellent organization that combats exactly the sort of problems our inaction may have encouraged.

We take our role as Kickstarter’s stewards very seriously. Kickstarter is one of the friendliest, most supportive places on the web and we’re committed to keeping it that way. We’re sorry for getting this so wrong.

Thank you,

Kickstarter

Comments
    1. Missing avatar

      Anthony Ogden on

      Hmm. What if Kickstarter gave themselves the ability to place temporary holds on projects to give them emergency review? If two hours isn't enough time to decide whether to cancel a project, perhaps you could pause it for 24 hours. The requirements to place such a hold could be relatively low and if you end up deciding that all is kosher, you'd just remove the hold and the project could continue as previously scheduled. The system could be nuanced a bit to ensure that projects would not be penalized (at least not heavily) if you decided not to cancel them.

    2. Sarah Louise Blake on

      @Duke Drizzt - " Insider secret, we don't like teeth so please keep that in mind cuz when I say no stop and u don't, you're raping me. We all know how everyone here feels about that."

      Um... yes? If a man asks a woman to stop and she doesn't, then yes, that is also sexual harassment/assault/rape. It happens, if rarely, and because of the way our culture is set up it's damn hard for them to deal with, too.

      However, what with the way our culture is set up, it's mostly women that are the ones harassed/assaulted/raped, and that is what this book is all about. It fails to understand the fundamental point that lack of resistance is not consent. Lack of resistance can mean many things. It can mean that the woman is shy and socially awkward and has no idea how to deal with what's happening to her. It can mean that she's shocked and frozen up. It can mean that she's scared of what the normally phyiscally larger and stronger person, who is acting aggressively, will do to her if she protests.

      It means that anyone following the advice to not pay attention to non-verbal signals (which, by the way, it's been shown that most men actually understand perfectly well, being normal functioning humans and all), continually escalating, not stopping unless physically forced to, always retrying; well, that person is going to get a lot of sex all right, but he's going to do it by sexually assaulting people.

      And I'm very appreciative that Kickstarter, even if they didn't stop the project, saw the problems with it and have made concrete steps to make up for their inaction. That takes courage.

    3. Daniel Zandian on

      Frankly there's a lot afoul here.

      1. I bet the vast majority complaining about the book haven't even looked at the kickstarter project. Is the book in any way recommending rape or violence towards women? No. Is it sleezy? Yes. But that's still a far cry from what the majority is thinking of it. Get real and put down the pitchforks. Does these things belong on Kickstarter? That's up to KS to decide what they want to do with their service. Which brings me to point two.
      2. "We only had 2 hours". I'm sorry but that's bullshit. Are you trying to tell us that you don't moderate the projects? Of course you do. You, unlike most here, actually read the project and found it ok. Then when the misinformed mob formed, you turned you coat.

      It's scary what powers the uninformed has and makes it easy to understand how otherwise nice and levelheaded people do idiotic things, like say in old nazi Germany.

    4. Missing avatar

      deleted on

      This user's account has been deleted.

    5. Vivian VonDoom Wong
      Superbacker
      on

      Excellent apology, kickstarter. Thanks for having the balls to apologize, then go a step further and donate money to a worthy charity.

    6. Sarah Louise Blake on

      @Daniel Zandian - "1. I bet the vast majority complaining about the book haven't even looked at the kickstarter project."

      Other way around. The vast majority defending the book haven't looked at all the additional material on Reddit.

    7. Emeline Walker on

      Everyone makes mistakes. You're forgiven. Thanks Kickstarter.

    8. Missing avatar

      deleted on

      This user's account has been deleted.

    9. Joash Lewis on

      Damn, but that's how you make a proper apology. Kudos Kickstarter, you've done the right thing.

    10. Anthony Eager on

      Glad you re-examined the piece and made an apology. I'll leave the conspiracy theorists too it now.

    11. Brandon Grech on

      I suggest an option for Kickstarter, as administrator, to have special rights with regards to projects. One of these rights would be to pause the payment event when a project ends. Thus, kickstarter would issue a command (In this case 2hrs beforehand) and when that kickstarter ends the project would be 'payment pending' rather than funded. In the case that kickstarter manages to solve the issue before the project ends nobody would have knowledge that kickstarter had issued the 'pause project' command, thus false claims would have no negative effects on a project

    12. Zeev Ravid on

      Very well done!

    13. Missing avatar

      Barbara Brust on

      NOT GOOD FOR KICKSTARTER. they are still advertising for it through their advertised cache of the kickstarter program. adverttising the author, the website they can still use and how to support the author without leaving the kickstarter site for anything other than the wayback machine. I say DUMP IT!!

    14. Missing avatar

      D D'Alessandro on

      I appreciate kick starter is taking responsibility for allowing a project that went against its own policies, and I appreciate the donation to RAINN. And I understand the "transparency" caching. But they might at least edit out the link to the author's website! Otherwise, with this circulating on FB (where I saw it) you are just giving free advertising to this guy.

    15. Demitri Salteris on

      OH yes, good job Kickstarter, way to give in to the socio-political rhetoric being spewed by the completely inane and hypocritical populous of FemiNazis and men haters of the internet. Yes, thank you. We should all hope to emulate your desire to make everyone happy. As a company dedicated to the community I fear you have made an uncouth and demeaning misstep. 1000+ comments in and the internet, news, and media, have begun the process of "washing their hands" of the veritable sh!tstorm this debacle really is. Yes, kudos are in order.
      If you can't get my sarcasm, let me be frank... There was nothing wrong with that project. Seduction, PUA's, MRA's and even the misguided males agreeing with you above my post, is nothing more than symptoms of a war brewing in the horizon. The end all battle of the sexes. This will start with men on strike, refusing to continue to procreate with a sex that they cannot tolerate anymore. It won't end till women pull their, waste of space, mental nutjob heads out of their collective a$$es and start treating men as equals.
      This "rape culture," misogyny, BS in nothing but smoke and mirrors designed to take the blame of this idiocy off of women, women's rights, and feminisms deplorable actions over the last few decades. You asked for this, you opened the floodgates, you answered to the hate and bile these women spew forth to get you to capitulate, you cannot back down from it now.
      I truly hope the next kickstarted project of "Women: How to get your daughter to say her father touched her." gets funded and then as much attention as this book did. Oh, wait, no it will go quietly onward touching the hearts and minds of thousands of young gifted women of the femisphere and be an inspiration to us all. The insipid fact that I am probably right in my sarcasm sickens me.
      This "no means no" argument... I can't even begin to fathom what ball park frank of a women that came out of... If that truly was the case, 100% of sales in this country would wither and die. Even before PUA's et. al. became the phenomena that is currently is, us young males of the 80's and 90's were taught "never give up, never surrender," "you fall off that horse, you get right back on," this book only tries to reiterate that ideal with an attitude of, "hey you're gunna get a no, try again." Where is the rape in that? Oh, I see it.. its being projected by some fanatical woman as "I said no, he's gunna rape me." All I hear is "listen to me damnit, I'm important, I HAVE A VAGINA!" The internet at its best. We all want to be heard, this is why we are here in the first place, why ruin it for the rest of us with that stuff coming out of your backside?
      What is the worse part about this? The fact that children are being flaunted around this country as some kind of door prize for being born female. Our societal and biological imperatives of protecting our weaker selves, is being abused, manipulated, warped, coached, lied to, and utterly ruined by those very same people we've sworn to protect. You want to know why PUA's exist in this world today? Because history is cyclical, people will always fight to survive, and real men are dying. The age of Chivalry and Familial Procreation is being slowly eroded by turkey basters and a different child support income from each kid. Men are slowly becoming aware to it, and solving their need to entertain themselves with sex by simply having sex with the easiest idiot with a vag out there. If that one says no, "oh well there are 30 more at this club, one will say yes." And of course we aren't idiots, we use protection. Why? Oh because the two worst, devastatingly depressing, financially detrimental decisions a man can make today is, a) get a club bimbo pregnant, and b) give in the the "old world" guilt and marrying that bitch. Nothing says I make $100k a year, but only see $30k of it like the U.S. family court system.
      Yes, thank you Kickstarter, you have given in like all the rest and capitulated, freedom of speech, and plenty other freedoms, by simply saying you're wrong. Oh well, better luck next time? Like Pontius Pilate, "I am innocent of the blood of this just person; see ye to it." right?

    16. Sarah Louise Blake on

      ...and on the even brighter side, Kickstarter, if you carry on doing the right thing people like Demitri and Diego might go away!

      Ooh, looks like Diego even did. Win!

      You can tell you're on the right side by the calibre of those who disapprove.

      PS Because you did the right thing, I will now be kickstarting deserving projects like a person demented. Keep it up.

    17. Missing avatar

      Steph Cummins on

      Big thanks Kickstarter. It takes some balls to admit "yeah we missed this", much respect from one here who also reported it <3

    18. Connor on

      Well done Kick starter. Its comments sections like this one that show how much we need gender equality. Even with your full names attached to each post you can't help acting like disgusting people.

    19. damocles74 on

      Thanks Kickstarter.
      You have to be a douchebag of epic proportions to defend this so called guide and its author. Sadly the comments show, that the douchebag quota is quite high.

    20. Amy R on

      A few thoughts...

      Our culture has really failed men, when they are taught to believe that rape is only some young pretty woman being held at knife-point in a dark alley by a stranger.

      Women are one half of the human species. We are not a "special interest group". Dear God.

    21. Missing avatar

      Stephanie G. on

      I appreciate the apology and the stand against violence. It really means a lot.

      But while I understand that it was out of kickstarter's hands to take back the funds already given to this particular project, it might be a good idea to come up with some alternative plans for the future so situations like this can be prevented.
      Maybe it would be possible to put projects that have been reported "on hold" so kickstarter has some time to review the projct and decide to take it down? It really can't be that hard to "pause" a project for a few hours, review it and then add the hours at the end to make up for the lost time.
      I'm sure those users of kickstarter who don't intend to put up projects of questionable content would be okay with a clause like that being added to the kickstarter terms of use.

      A donation to RAINN is great and all but it means very little if kickstarter won't work on preventing the funding of projects like this in the future.

    22. Donna Smith on

      A very well said apology. I don't actually know what the content was but glad to see an organization taking responsibility and providing your subscribers greater confidence in the company.

    23. Missing avatar

      Michael Goodwin on

      Not a backer of this project, but not impressed.
      I think it is a stretch to draw a comparison between this material and RAINN.
      Are you implying that the 732 backers of this project are now encouraged to rape, abuse and commit incest???
      It could be argued that your removal of this project is misandrist.

    24. Tara Mullins on

      This little gem of an excerpt should help skeptics get the idea, "Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick."

      You have do a bit or research to find the draft work for the project, which I'd strongly suggest before voicing your opinion here. While you're at it, do a bit more research on Kickstarter's rights to credit card information submitted directly to Amazon.

      Kickstarter, EXCELLENT work.

    25. Neroli Thomas on

      Bullshit Kickstarter can't pull this rapist lowlife scumbag's funding. That and more should be being done here. The piece of shit who made that project and every rapey little fuckwit dudebro Redditor who backed him should be facing legal action of the most extreme possible nature. THIS IS A PUBLISHED GUIDE TO RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT. How is that not getting through to you?! $25,000 to a charity does not absolve you of allowing a GUIDE TO SEXUAL ASSAULT AND RAPE to be published thanks to your medium, Kickstarter.

    26. Missing avatar

      Roland Dobbins on

      This guy's 'advice', while in poor taste, certainly isn't advocating rape or violence.

      It's pretty obvious that the usual suspects (probably deliberately) took the quotes out of context in order to create a furore:

      http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe

      Now, I think that this is a silly 'project' and not the sort of thing which Kickstarter should want to get involved with in the first place, but this gross overreaction is absurd. Quite frankly, this guy may have standing to sue Kickstarter and the soi-disant 'bloggers' who seemingly deliberately spread misinformation about him and his putative book for libel - and, to be honest, I hope he does.

      Poor taste <> rape manual.

    27. Missing avatar

      Pam Leung on

      "This part that you quoted: 'If at any point a girl wants you to stop, she will let you know. If she says "STOP," or "GET AWAY FROM ME," or shoves you away, you know she is not interested.'
      He's using exaggerated examples to illustrate his point. He's not saying that's the line and only up until that point should you keep going. He's just giving examples of whens he's not interested. I think the author used exaggerated language to emphasize his points and thus people interpret his meaning as being literal or extreme."

      The author's intended audience, though, are men who are socially awkward (esp. around women) and not terribly capable of understanding nuance, body language, non-verbals, etc., and you really think that this intended audience is going to realize that he is using hyperbole in his examples? Well, maybe so, since men seem to be perfectly capable of discerning non-verbals when they invade another man's personal space uninvited, but that ability magically flies out their ears when they invade a woman's personal space uninvited.

      "He's talking about how to approach sex after there's already a mutual understanding that both sides are going to have sex."

      Not so much a mutual understanding as the author tells his intended audience that "Yes, you both kinda-sorta know it's for sex". It's not clear-cut, but hey, it's YOUR intended goal and she's still following your lead, so it MUST be her intended goal, too! And since women corner the market on this esoteric skill of reading non-verbal cues stuff, that even if she DIDN'T know that it was your intended goal (since you point blank TOLD her that it WASN'T, per the author's instructions), she SHOULDA known.
      Yeah, "she SHOULDA known" is NEVER used as a blame the victim defense. /sarcasm

      And then there is this recommendation in the guide "And of course you can always try to go to her place (but then you give up a tremendous amount of logistical control, so tread carefully.)"
      Yep, nothing like going somewhere that's not only isolated and private, but may be totally unfamiliar to her (but, of course, totally familiar to YOU), to keep YOU in control and HER totally off-balance and not aware of any escape routes. There's a reason that far more legitimate guides say that when choosing a venue for a first date to select one that is closer to where SHE resides and is in an area that is familiar to HER.

      "It will also feature a snippet in there for you women that are horrible at blowjobs. Insider secret, we don't like teeth so please keep that in mind"
      Sure, no problem, so long as YOU keep in mind that women, being human and not just an inflatable doll with real skin, also have involuntary muscle reactions, including their jaw muscles, when their body is giving their brain "Help, I'm choking!!" cues when an object....any object....is being forced down their throat. Insider secret, don't grab her head and masturbate yourself with it unless she specifically tells you that that is what she wants you to do.

      "cuz when I say no stop and u don't, you're raping me."

      You are absolutely correct.

      "It would have been a good project if it had taught people, men and women, how to deal with disappointments in sexual relationships, instead of how to prevent them."
      Whole-heartedly agree!! Better to learn to bend yourself to cope with reality rather than trying to bend reality to suit yourself.

      "Requiring that she have the split-second timing to stop someone reaching out to touch her basically says, 'Hey women, you need to be ready for someone to touch you at a moment's notice so that you can prevent people from infringing on your bodily autonomy!' It promotes a culture where women have to be ready at a moment's notice to defend themselves."

      And it's quite a conundrum, this culture that is being promoted, because at the same time it also berates women for having created a culture of "misaaaaaaaaandry" by treating all men as potential rapists.

      "(which, by the way, it's been shown that most men actually understand [non-verbal signals] perfectly well, being normal functioning humans and all),"

      Sure they do. I think part of the problem of some men "not understanding" women's non-verbal signs is that their focus is not in the moment, but on "the final destination", which is (according to Tofu Tofu) "on top of your penis.", and that is what the book is attempting to map out for them, for when on the first date, even. It's difficult to read, never mind even see, the non-verbals when your head is clogged with "when are we gonna get there? when are we gonna get there? are we there yet? are we there yet?".

    28. Missing avatar

      deleted on

      This user's account has been deleted.

    29. Missing avatar

      Kasi Viswanath on

      I love Kickstarter even more now.

    30. Lee Knott on

      I missed the initial scream fest, but as a woman who has been a victim, I have to say this reaction is by far an overreach. Read the rat of his chapter and you will see time and again he advocates for listening to the woman if she says stop. I can see nothing wro.g with what he is advocating. This is out of control social media.

    31. Dawn McGuire MD on

      Kick starter has every right to set standards for projects. However, I see only a promise of "non-sleazy" advice to perhaps socially awkward guys-- if there is a hate content, or violence, it sure isn't evident to me. Seems the war on women is in the judiciary and legislature, not among guys trying to get women to take them seriously. My $.02.

    32. Michael Wild on

      I reviewed the video and page in question and I could not find any references to "violence against women", can someone point it out?

    33. Missing avatar

      Isaac Baranoff on

      This was not a misogynistic project.

    34. Mark Mensch on

      For every guy who says that there was nothing wrong with the project - here's a very simple test. Imagine that it was happening to you by another guy - one that you could not physically attack. Imagine a guy pulled himself out of his pants and put your hand on him. And other such wonderful tidbits in being dominate with you.

      As long as you feel that that would be OK to you can you say it. And until you allow a guy to put your hand down his pants, you don't have a leg to stand on. Don't say that you'd just pop the guy - that's not the point The point is that it's a book telling people it's OK for them to do it.

      Oh, and Kickstarter lies - they could put a hold on things immediately and then release it in a few hours if they were wrong. They did it with the Kobe Beef Jerky Fraud, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/kobe-beef-jerky-fraud-scam-kickstarter_n_3443157.html…

    35. Michael M. on

      Thanks Kickstarter for bowing the idiotic feminist wims and depriving consumers a product and creators a chance to share knowlage. There is nothing 'misogynistic' about this project, except if you water down the term until it is essentially useless. I also want to thank you for donating to an organisation that focuses on female victims, even though any competent and non deceptive study shows gender symmetry in domestic abuse and gender symmetry in victims of sexual violence (male rape in jail as a large contributing factor)(even when defining rape as only penetration and not including acts of enveloping). With this donation you only intend to help one specific group instead of helping us all.
      So thank you Kickstarter, even though I enjoy your services and the opportunities you being to creators and consumers, today you proved that even you are not immune to ideological thinking, simple rhetoric, and ignorance of facts.

    36. Missing avatar

      deleted on

      This user's account has been deleted.

    37. Missing avatar

      Brittany M on

      I'm going to second another commenter on this page--please prohibit anything that promotes cruelty to living beings, not just this issue.
      http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backyardbrains/the-roboroach-control-a-living-insect-from-your-sm
      Big yikes.

    38. Bryan on

      Very big of you to come forward like this. There was little you could have done in that window, and I'm very glad that the (Majority) of the community accepts that. For those saying they can still pull funding, they cannot, it would be both largely impossible, and highly illegal to make the attempt. For those who say that this is simply to appease the feminists are clearly aren't familiar with the excerpts that were posted from the book, (e.g. ""Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances") The book is from all appearances super offensive, and ought not to be published, but there are some prices that must be paid for freedom of the press.

      Once again, KS is taking the best possible action, and should be commended for taking the high road where many other companies would just let it blow over without a word. Thank you.

    39. Missing avatar

      Matthew Popov on

      Cool censorship Kickstarter.

    40. Mark Hawking on

      There was nothing immoral in the PUA guide, unless you were partial and judgemental in your reading. I'm very disappointed with the politically-correct attitude you guys have shown, and I hope it bites you back as soon as possible.

    41. Missing avatar

      Suen on

      To those not seeing any problem with the suggestions in that book.
      Would you try to grab and force in your lap Mike Tyson?
      Force him to rebuff your advances?
      Naaa, you dare to do it only to someone weaker than you.
      It is sexual harassment, and you are ruining the day of someone, ranging from piss her off to scaring the shit out of her, but that for you is ok, because you think it's a game.
      If it doesn't matter to you, it is because you dehumanized women to the point you can't see them like human being anymore.

    42. Missing avatar

      sleiveen on

      Hey people who fighting against any one who promotes rape, misogyny and objectification of women. Here are my thoughts I originally posted this here: (http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1gsuny/above_the_game_almost_stopped_by_kickstarter_why/canorwf), but I'd like to share this with you since I am very displeased with his actions:

      -----------------

      I mean the following with the greatest respect and admiration, tofutofu, but you should very seriously considering kicking that glue sniffing habit that's causing you to make these statements.

      Now Ken is going to FINALLY take the responsibility for promoting and endorsing [even if indirectly] sexual assaults. Wish him luck looking for a job. I am very subjective on this matter because I had VERY negative experience with him, and it left horrific taste in my mouth.

      I moderated subreddit /r/GothamSeddit and my agenda was to promote healthy lifestyle for single men and women living in NYC. I organized meetups and activities. Community grew from 0 to 1000 members. We used groupme chat for daily blabber. Unfortunately the chat got to the point where it was saturated with NSFW content and noise to signal ratio multiplied. To that effect, I issued rules and guidelines . However, when I started enforcing them and kicking people out for infractions, it caused a revolt among several members. Ken was fully endorsing NSFW content and said numerously that the whole premise of seddit is NSFW. As a result, those guys formed their own chat.

      I decided to dissolve the original chat and switched my focus on improving the community on subreddit. In turn, Ken gave me some a bunch of crap and then removed me from the moderating /r/GothamSeddit/.

      I found his actions disgusting, treacherous and vindictive.

      I decided to exit the drama and any dealings with this guy, and bade farewell to the community, which was hard (read here (1)). While I was distraught, I decided not to fight it. Now, however, as he openly promotes potentially criminal acts. Later, from another moderator on /r/seduction, I learned about other crimes against /r/seduction/ community tofutofu perpetrated. I copy and paste his words:

      "Maybe you figured you were only one fighting against Tofu's backstabbing, but I was working against his backstabbing in seddit (at me mostly) at the very same time you trying to defend yourself. That's why I first contacted you. We really need to get together and align, I think we both want the same things, starting with Tofu as far away from us as possible. Let's kick some ass."

      Hence I was compelled to intervene. He shouldn't be associated with /r/seddit in any way. He is a charlatan and dishonest man. And I sincerely hope seddit is not about that, but on the contrary strives to improve lives of its members.

      In summary, TofuTofu had lost his mojo and become a run-of-the-mill charlatan.

      (1)http://www.reddit.com/r/GothamSeddit/comments/1flwcw/goodbye_gothamseddit/

    43. Kieran O'Sullivan on

      Having bothered to actually read the writings of this author on Reddit, (not provided in this post or the Kickstater project page) I agree with Kickstarter's decision and the change in policy. Good move.

    44. Missing avatar

      doodlemancy on

      Someone should Kickstart a guide to the first amendment... because some of the whiny MRAs and sleazy dudebros whining about how this response is "censorship" and invoking Godwin's Law clearly need a refresher on how it works. No, see, you don't have freedom of speech when it comes to somebody's privately owned website. It's theirs, and they can tell you what you can and can't do here, just like you can tell people what they can and can't do in your own house. Kickstarter doesn't allow people to fund weapons, either-- are you gonna whine about how that's violating our fourth amendment rights? Go forth, o great defenders of Freedom.

      No but seriously, why are you all so angry, dudes? This book instructs people to use really forceful and just plain bad "techniques" to pick up women-- techniques that are likely to anger, annoy, or downright scare us, (in the case of "just walk up to her and shove her really hard", possibly hurt us) or maybe land you in jail. Why are you so defensive of this garbage? I was reading this abomination on reddit and laughing my ass off; besides the creepy abusive parts, it's just... so bad, especially the section about sex. It's a complete disaster, it sounds like it's written by some horny basement dweller who only knows about sex through porn. The author cites Fifty Shades of Grey, an ascended Twilight BDSM fanfic and possibly the worst erotic fiction ever to go mainstream, as a good bedroom resource. Would you want a book of household tips that tells you to just ignore the warnings on the bottles, because bleach and ammonia make the best shower cleaner? Would you want a game strategy guide that tells you to jump into every pitfall? A cookbook that tells you to grease your pans with gasoline? Why are you all so mad when women-- the people who you seem so very desperate to attract and be liked by-- come here and tell you that this book is creepy as hell?

      Also, it got funded despite our best efforts, so unless the author flakes out, you'll get your book. And because it's gotten so much attention, he'll probably make a buttload of money off the swill he's selling to you. But please, continue bawling about how the meanie head feminists are persecuting you by telling you not to frighten or hurt women.

    45. Missing avatar

      Pam Leung on

      Alright, for the Feminazi Stole My Ice Cream crowd here, try to cast a seriously critical eye on this "practice primer":

      "I highly recommend some of you guys try this out, but it's not for the faint of heart.
      Example:
      [see girl on dancefloor or near bar]
      [approach]
      [hook her in with your arm] "Aww you're so cute. Come here."
      [shove her aside HARD, seemingly randomly]
      [approach someone else and say hi]
      [Turn around. About 75% of the time she'll be staring at you with a huge grin on her face.]
      [Walk back over to her.] "You really are so cute, you know that?"
      [repeat]
      This is one of those "reality destroyer" openers where girls have NO IDEA what just happened. You can open as many sets as you want throughout the club/bar this way and decide which ones you wanna pursue further at your leisure.
      I did this yesterday in a dance club.
      I re-open a girl by walking up, grabbing her, caveman-ing her against the wall & kissing her. Then I cast her aside and get a drink at the bar......"

      Now, putting aside the obvious fact that women only exist to be range silhouettes for horny dudebros-in-training who are in need of a little extra target practice, can you really not see how scenarios such as the above have a good potential of backfiring..........BADLY.........on the horny dudebro-in-training?

    46. Missing avatar

      Z on

      um. yeah, there was absolutely no reason to take the project down. i just went through damn near every post on reddit - you know, the ones that are EASILY available for public viewing - and read them. in no way, shape, or form does the author promote rape or assault of any kind. good job on being completely idiotic, kickstarter!

    47. Rachel Stoller on

      This is the best apology I've ever seen from a company. Thank you so much.

    48. Missing avatar

      Hawk DeNunzio on

      To everyone who didn't see what kind of tips the author was actually promoting, here's a cached site (surprise, surprise, it was taken down when people outside the jerk circle started looking at it):

      http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search…

      Now, as is pretty plain, what is promoted here is nothing short of sexual assault. It assumes that there's only one form of resistance that a woman can give, and if she doesn't, no matter what the reason could be (too drunk, too shy, etc), that's a "go ahead" sign. It's all about forcing yourself on strangers just because of some weird assumption that you're entitled to sex.

      Not to mention that it's pretty full of bullshit otherwise too, such as claiming most men can't read the signals women give. To those of you who try to convince yourself this is true... Sorry, it's just that some men (and women) simply have problems reading body language, period. The rest of us have a pretty good idea about what's going on, though.

    49. JDelic on

      Thank you. There is always more that can be done, but this is an honest apology with some attempt at reparations. Good start.