We were wrong

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Dear everybody,

On Wednesday morning Kickstarter was sent a blog post quoting disturbing material found on Reddit. The offensive material was part of a draft for a “seduction guide” that someone was using Kickstarter to publish. The posts offended a lot of people — us included — and many asked us to cancel the creator’s project. We didn’t.

We were wrong.

Why didn’t we cancel the project when this material was brought to our attention? Two things influenced our decision:

  • The decision had to be made immediately. We had only two hours from when we found out about the material to when the project was ending. We’ve never acted to remove a project that quickly. 
  • Our processes, and everyday thinking, bias heavily toward creators. This is deeply ingrained. We feel a duty to our community — and our creators especially — to approach these investigations methodically as there is no margin for error in canceling a project. This thinking made us miss the forest for the trees.

These factors don’t excuse our decision but we hope they add clarity to how we arrived at it.

Let us be 100% clear: Content promoting or glorifying violence against women or anyone else has always been prohibited from Kickstarter. If a project page contains hateful or abusive material we don’t approve it in the first place. If we had seen this material when the project was submitted to Kickstarter (we didn’t), it never would have been approved. Kickstarter is committed to a culture of respect.

Where does this leave us?

First, there is no taking back money from the project or canceling funding after the fact. When the project was funded the backers’ money went directly from them to the creator. We missed the window.

Second, the project page has been removed from Kickstarter. The project has no place on our site. For transparency’s sake, a record of the page is cached here.

Third, we are prohibiting “seduction guides,” or anything similar, effective immediately. This material encourages misogynistic behavior and is inconsistent with our mission of funding creative works. These things do not belong on Kickstarter.

Fourth, today Kickstarter will donate $25,000 to an anti-sexual violence organization called RAINN. It’s an excellent organization that combats exactly the sort of problems our inaction may have encouraged.

We take our role as Kickstarter’s stewards very seriously. Kickstarter is one of the friendliest, most supportive places on the web and we’re committed to keeping it that way. We’re sorry for getting this so wrong.

Thank you,

Kickstarter

Comments
    1. Jackie Shelley on

      Spot on! Hooray~!

    2. Tal Waterhouse on

      Okay, let's see what they have to say now in hindsight:

      "We were wrong." - Cool, they got that out of the way first.

      "We're giving $25k to RAINN." - Excellent! It's a show of good faith that they're willing to at least try and make up for their mistakes. I'm definitely reconsidering my stance from yesterday.

      "We're banning “seduction guides,” or anything similar." - Hmmm, delicately handled specifying this and only this subject. More on this soon.

      "We had only two hours from when we found out about the material to when the project was ending. We’ve never acted to remove a project that quickly." - And this, this is where they lose me again as a believer.

      I get that a snap decision had to made here, and Kickstarter admit they made the wrong one. But in no way do I see them admitting in that apology that flaws exist in their system that allowed this to happen or committing to change the way they handle these situations in future, not just by banning that type of material but by ensuring a system exists to allow them to make the right choice every time.

      They haven't elaborated on how the system of reporting offensive material is flawed in the way it depends heavily on its community to report anything, and even after that it could be too late to shut down a project since it may have already slipped by or be close to finishing which is exactly what caused them to make the wrong choice.

      With this in mind I don't see how they're going to prevent putting themselves in a position like this again. Adding a policy such as 'locking' the timer to give themselves time to review a contested project and decide whether or not to allow it to finish in the 11th hour would go a long way here and they haven't acknowledged this.

      For this, they're still not getting any more of my support.

    3. Duke Drizzt on

      It's clear most ppl here don't understand what rape or sexual harassment really is. Just because a girl says "NO" doesn't automatically qualify something as rape or harassment. Women are extremely emotional creatures and change their minds as fast as the winds change. That's why I always say, never trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die.

    4. Easty Beasty on

      Duke Drizzt: WRONG! If a girl says "No" it means No! Its people like you that are the problem with society.

    5. Miles Adams on

      I'm really disappointed that Kickstarter has caved in to these ideologues and adopted a policy of demonizing male sexuality. Declaring "seduction" (any attempt to persuade or induce to have sexual intercourse) is "misogyny" (the hatred of women) is to say that every heterosexual man who doesn't embrace celibacy hates women.

      That's messed up, man. That's really messed up.

    6. Missing avatar

      John Funk on

      Duke Drizzt: Did your parents never teach you "no means no"? The misogyny is strong with this one.

      Miles Adams: Please refer to my post on the prior page. There is a difference between male sexuality and harmful male sexuality. There is a difference between flirting and seduction and harassment. This book fell on the wrong sides.

    7. Kate on

      To all the folk citing the CNN article: Only the headline says "minutes." I'm sorry, but I'm very skeptical of any information that only appears in a headline (which tend to be written more to catch the eye and less to be an accurate representation of the event). The article itself just says "just before." It is unclear what this means. Are we talking 120 minutes? 360 minutes? It's fuzzy, and I know enough about journalism to take the headline information with a pinch of salt unless I am given a hard number.

      RE: Someone should have caught this!
      Why? Kickstarter reviewed the materials provided by the creator in the assumption that they were a good faith representation of what would be in the book. They were not, and that was not apparent until someone blew the whistle on the scumbag. Yes, background research may have revealed the problems ahead of time. But do you really expect every single Kickstarter proposal to go through this type of intense detective work? If they did that, KS would never have gotten off the ground. They have to hope that people are being honest in their representations of their projects. This all comes down to the creator being deceptive, not to KS not doing its due diligence.

    8. Tal Waterhouse on

      @Miles Adams - Are you kidding me. Did you even see what some of the suggestions in this project's book were and what sort of behavior it was endorsing? You're the one messed up if you think it was okay.

    9. Duke Drizzt on

      Mr. Funk, I was always taught that no means no except when read backwards for on, as in turned on

    10. Nick Moore on

      Good one.

      But surely "getting awesome with women" at the very least mandates objectifying women? Or did you expect it to be all about a revival of SNAG culture?

      Nevertheless, good apology.

    11. Missing avatar

      Liam Ellis on

      As a man who has never been raped, it's not my place to offer forgiveness for this. But if it was, I would. Thank you.

    12. Missing avatar

      mr_urc on

      I know that having only two hours to address the problem is a problem, but if you don't implement a solution to THAT problem, you will continue to have to make this kind of rushed decision in the future.

    13. Miles Adams on

      I have read several of the articles. The entire things, not just selectively edited quotes.

      For example, the quote about "put her hand on your cock" is from a section on escalating a sexual encounter. It is the authors recommended next move after a man had already established that his partner is comfortable with him touching her vagina. That is, he is suggesting that if a woman is letting you fingerbang her, its okay to put her hand on your cock without asking permission.

      That is not advocating rape. That explaining how to have sex to guys who clearly have zero experience. Because you don't have to ask permission for every little thing. You're allowed to push boundaries and get rebuffed. If you're not, then I've been sexually assaulted by every single woman I've been with.

      This is a witchhunt, and the people spreading these quotes are liars. Your twisting words and excluding massive amounts of context. It's really quite disturbing.

    14. Jo Dal Santo on

      Whilst it's extremely disappointing that someone, or your procedures, clearly failed to recognize misogynistic, violent content when it was linked to your own site, I appreciate your acknowledgement of Kickstarters' failings in doing the right thing. I trust you will review these policies and procedures to ensure a speedy withdrawal of creator support should a similar incident occur in the future. I had always held your philosophies, practices, and concept in high regard, but felt truly disturbed, at your apparent lack of care towards prospective victims of those who adopt the methods outlined in this "sexual assault manual". This behavior cannot be accepted by any right thinking human being, in any context, and while I am still saddened that there are men out there who will think this gives them permission to act this way, I know we can only serve to send a message that this is not ever okay, and that will only happen when organisations such as yours decline them the opportunity to spread their hate. Thanks for the donation to RAINN. It's an appropriate gesture!

    15. Kyle Willis on

      I don't think the campaign warranted deletion. I think that the majority of posters here need to take a sexual education class. I spoke not in favor of this campaign, but not against it either on my Facebook timeline and have been screen-shot captured and blogged all over Tumblr, accused of being a part of "rape culture".

      People have taken this guy's book WAY out of context, and lost your minds in the process.

    16. Michael Kalus on

      Seduction == Misogyny? Maybe I should launch a Kickstarter to burn all the romance novels out there. Some people have completely lost the plot.

    17. Miles Adams on

      @John Funk

      John, you can't go through life seeing women as fragile, delicate potential victims who need to be treated like eggshells. Because most women aren't like that, and they find men who treat them like they are potentially rape survivors waiting to be re-traumatized creepy.

      Because it is creepy.

    18. Kyle Willis on

      It's sad that the people who actually take all of the information into account before they form an opinion are outnumbered by those who are quick to point fingers, judge and lynch someone for anything that steps on their sensibilities.

    19. Duke Drizzt on

      Women LOVE dick (except for the dykes) what's wrong with that? Tons of feminazi's around here.

    20. Jason on

      lost alot of respect for Kickstarter on this one. There are plenty of projects here that deal with sexuality, why single this one out? Its hardly the most offensive or outside the mainstream or whatever you want to call it

      This whole "we're donating money to women's charities now!" thing is just embarrassing. Obvious that you guys are just trying to buy the love of a certain segment of your users and I think that's pathetic tbh

      I have never bought a seduction guide and never intend to but I don't see where this project was so awful that you have to delete it from the site, while you leave numerous just flat out scams up and running regardless of how many times they're reported to you

      I guess next time I see a project that's an obvious fraud I'll just report them for disrespecting women and then you guys will actually do something

    21. Missing avatar

      John Funk on

      @Miles Adams - I don't? Women are perfectly capable of making their own choices and owning their sexuality. It's awesome when they do. But I don't advocate always assuming consent is the default, nor do I deny that women are socialized differently and taught to grow up more passively, which isn't actually the case. I DON'T think women are passive, submissive people like the seduction community does.

    22. Rachel O'Neil on

      It's a start, but it's not good enough. You should Never "err on the side of the creators" or whatever. For that you should be ashamed. Is your executive level management only run by clueless men or what? Shame on you.

    23. Miles Adams on

      @John Funk

      Rereading your comment, the one you asked me to look at, I see I missed your final paragraph. It seemed to me that you were saying that a man had to ask for consent for every single escalation, especially with the section you wrote about how women can't say no out of fear of being rude. Which strikes me as rather inane.

      But you seem to think a "yes" to "Hey come over" is a consent to sex, so now I'm trying to figure out what your problem with the author is. Because the author is making the same assumptions you are, and the supposedly offensive recommendations he makes are, essentially, what to do after she says yes.

    24. Missing avatar

      Iain Jameson on

      This is just political correctness.

      Don't like it? Don't give them money, and don't read it. That's how an adult would react. But I don't expect that from the politically correct.

      The bible contains far more violence, but I doubt those calling for this to be banned would dream of banning the bible.

    25. Missing avatar

      Jennifer Elizabeth Zagurski on

      Thank you for the fine apology! I am very confident in Kickstarter after reading this.

    26. Missing avatar

      John Funk on

      @miles Adams - I don't think that at all? A yes - or her wordlessly agreeing to a "Hey come over here" is a consent to sitting on your lap. A breathy "you wanna fool around a bit?" whispered in her ear as you're making out means you can escalate that.

      There's a world of difference between making out, getting an indication that she wants to go further and unbuttoning your pants so she can grab your junk, and you forcibly dragging her hand to your dick before you know if she wants to or not.

      You don't need to ask her to fill out forms in triplicate, but especially if it's the first time you're making out with her and you start to slide your hand up the back of her shirt, just a "Hey, this okay?" or whatever - that's just common sense dude. Never assume you have consent.

      Consent is sexy. Getting consent is sexy. Assuming you have consent and acting first is not. That's the difference.

    27. Missing avatar

      Alex Cassi on

      Thank you so much for taking all the right action, aplogizing, and not trying to minimize the issue's importance to all good people around the world (men and women). Thank you for being such a socially responsible company. We need more companies like you in this world!

    28. Missing avatar

      Dave Torrent on

      They did a study recently where they actually questioned men for once, and the results were pretty scary. 8% of men admitted to acts that meet the legal definition of rape. If you're thinking that's small, 8% is one in thirteen men. But even more disturbing was that 35% of men admitted that if they could be sure of getting away with it there was some likelihood of them committing rape. So if anyone's wondering what the harm might be to fund a book like this: one in three men self-admittedly only need a little encouragement, and here's a book telling you that if she shoves you off and tells you to get away from her you should try again. And then the rest, but I've just taken that line from HIS DEFENSE.

      @ Joe Wheeler: MTE

      *Stats courtesy of oneinfourusa.org

    29. Miles Adams on

      @John Funk

      Wow, you should write a book about seduction techniques and put it up on Kickstarter. Too bad you can't, since those have all been declared rape manuals now.

      Rather than defend him, I'll just quote the author himself:
      "The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advice on what to do AFTER a man has met a cute girl, gotten her phone number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and now are alone behind closed doors fooling around. If "Don't wait for signs, make the first move" promotes sexual assault, then "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid was a song about rape.

      That cherry-picked advice, without that important context, makes it sound like I am advocating non-consensual sexual advances on strangers. I would absolutely never do such a thing.

      In fact there is an entire section on consent that the bloggers conveniently left out to paint me in a poor light"

      And John, having read the section myself, and knowing that the "dragging her hand to your dick before you know if she wants to or not" part is given as an example of how to escalate a sexual encounter when you're already fingerbanging her (I seriously wish I could bold that part), no I really don't think you're in any danger assuming you have consent.

      Because really, if a woman is okay with you fingerbanging her, but not interested in stroking you off, then the real issue here isn't consent, but why is she so damn selfish?

    30. Missing avatar

      Mel on

      You do not know how wrong you are. Thanks for raping me yet again. I am not a man hater. I have been happily married for 29 years. The reason for the long marriage is because of a wonderful man who realized I had been through the worst kind of hell and he could help me come through the pain. My biological father raped be force over 7,000 times starting when I was three, at least that is my earliest memory. 3 of my brothers also molested me. I always put up a fight, but, of course, I was no match. I am 52 years old now, well past the molestation at the age of 17, yet the rapes haunt me. I am not a religious person, but I am a moral person. The two are not mutually exclusive. I am also a firm believer of free speech. What I cannot condone, is abuse in the disguise of free speech. It is not right that males feel they have the right to abuse women. It is not right that Christians turn a blind eye to hypocrisy because of political manipulation. It is not right for one human to force their will upon another human. If there is a god, please, for the love of you, come down and fix this mess. We need help and direction. Please help those of us who are lost.

    31. Missing avatar

      Linda on

      Thank you, Kickstarter! This is true integrity. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Hopefully, others will follow your example.

    32. Missing avatar

      Alex Cassi on

      @Iain - I understand what you are trying to say about the bible. Yes it would be great to ban it because it is so violent, mysoginistic, promotes slavery of all kinds etc...but I think it would be a lifelong crusade and would probably not get you anywhere because of the power that is. That is why I think it is important to ban other kinds of material that incite hatred or promote violence towards others.

      When trying to make society better for everyone, surprisingly its the small things that matter as much as the big things. So you may think this is a small thing - but I assure you, it is a big thing to a lot of people.

    33. Missing avatar

      Jeremy Cape on

      Alright, let's clear up a few misconceptions:

      1) Seduction isn't mysoginistic. However, it is also worth pointing out that kickstarter never said it was. Kickstarter said that it was banning seduction books. Why? Because "seduction" books tend to be a lot closer to this project, than to a book on how to read social cues.

      2) Read the damned post if you're going to be offended.

      3) Read the damned post if you're going to try to defend it.

      4) It is not only rape if the woman says no. Simple definition of rape: non-consensual sex. That is, sex in which the people involved did not consent. From his guide:

      "The concept of "waiting for signs" or "Indicators of Interest" was commonplace in older pickup theory. It is 100% garbage and needs to be erased from the face of the planet.

      Never, ever, ever, wait for a SIGN before you escalate!"

      Notice what he did there? He specifically instructs them to not get any sign from them that they want this, but to simply escalate immediately. In fact...

      "From now on you must ASSUME that she is attracted to you and wants to be ravished."

      That, right there, is encouraging rape. That leads to...

      5) Consent is active, not passive. Again, from the guide:

      "Decide that you're going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don't ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances."

      You see that last part, where he explains for them to not stop unless she forces him to? That's encouraging rape. That's taking consent as a given, and telling you to act on it until you are forced to stop.

      "If at any point a girl wants you to stop, she will let you know. If she says "STOP," or "GET AWAY FROM ME," or shoves you away, you know she is not interested."

      False. This, again, is part of the problem. If you follow the advice he gives, being aggressive, getting in close, looking straight into her eyes, touching her immediately and often, most of the time, you're going to intimidate her. A great many times when somebody is rape, they don't say 'no', because they are afraid of the person. Further, he follows this up with,

      "Stop escalating immediately and say this line:

      "No problem. I don't want you to do anything you aren't comfortable with."

      Memorize that line. It is your go-to when faced with resistance. Say it genuinely, without presumption. All master seducers are also masters at making women feel comfortable. You'll be no different. If a woman isn't comfortable, take a break and try again later."

      Okay, here's the problem with that. Firstly, a phrase you have to memorize to get yourself out of trouble, is inherently not a good thing. Further, his solution is to offer the phrase (and nothing on actually rectifying the issue), then trying again. Finally, a phrase is not a fucking talisman. Notice that at no point did he encourage you to figure out WHAT made her uncomfortable so you can avoid it. Just to take it that she is, give her the phrase that is designed to make her feel comfortable, some time to forget about it, then start again.

      So, assuming you follow his advice, you've now gotten in close, started putting your hands all over her, been aggressive, and she's finally told you no in a way that you accept. Ignoring the fact that you've already sexually assaulted this person, and have now been rebuffed, his solution is to try again after her guard is down again. Keeping in mind that he is quite explicit that it doesn't matter what signals she gives, as you shouldn't pay them any mind.

      6) Who the fuck cares that this is for shy guys? This is, at best, irrelevant. See, this can either be a statement that it is intended for shy guys, so this can be excused (implying that sexual assault is fine so long as the guy wasn't getting laid beforehand), or that it is intended for shy guys, irrelevant of whether it is sexual assault or not. Those of you using this line, best to just take it back, since it is worse if it were relevant.

      7) The "put her hand on your cock" quote is wildly out of context. I can't actually believe that this is a factor, since it is explicitly in a section on what to do during sex.

      8) No, you do not need explicit permission for every little thing, and every manner of touching somebody. Anybody advocating this is stupid.

      9) Yes, the book advocated touching somebody in ways that are not in any way innocuous, irrelevant of indications from the woman.

      In a section on making out, he provides this advice: "Let your hands roam free. Squeeze her ass. Rub the side of her breasts. Rub your hands up and down her legs. Make her push your hand away as you get closer to her vagina. Fucking ravish her."

      Did you see where he went wrong? Again, anything less explicit than physically stopping you is considered to be consent. And notice that he did not say to stop at that point. At that point, you are to ravish her. Could this be out of context? Maybe the point when she is stopping you is where he suggests slowing down? Quite the opposite. Right after that:

      "Grab her hair on the back of her head, by the base of her neck, and pull it back aggressively. Pause and stare her in the eye before going back in."

      By his advice, you have done something she has not just given signals she doesn't want, but instead has physically stopped you from doing. The response? To grab her aggressively, look her in the eyes, and go on anyways.

      10) Those of you who are screaming misandry, listen up, because this section is all for you. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. I am a guy who actually takes misandy very seriously, and people like you are a problem for people like me. The MRAs and that bullshit takes stuff like this, and declares it misandry to not objectify and sexually assault women.

      No. Fuck that. You don't get to take something important and turn it into something to justify your lack of growth beyond that of a caveman. I won't take it. I won't allow it. There are more and more like me, who find you to be absolute scum for this.

      Do you understand there are real problems?
      90% of custody cases favour the mother, regardless of circumstances.
      Over 95% of those paying alimony are men. In many cases, this is despite the woman earning more.
      Domestic violence against men is considered a joke, despite studies finding it to be nearly as common as violence against women. In many jurisdictions, by law, a man must be arrested in any situation of domestic violence.
      Men are required to register for the draft and can be forced into service against their will.
      Men being raped in prison is so common-place that some studies show it might total as many as happen outside of prison. That is, 2.9% of the US population that is incarcerated is raped so often that it totals as much as the other 97.1%.

      This isn't a fucking joke for you to pull out to defend somebody's attempt to teach people how to sexually assault women.

    34. Missing avatar

      Alex Cassi on

      @John Funk - thank you for your posts. Good to see other men exist out there that respect women

    35. Missing avatar

      Alex Cassi on

      @Jeremy Cape - THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    36. Susan Cohen on

      All is forgiven!

    37. Missing avatar

      Jeremy Cape on

      @Iain

      As I discussed with my friend, there is no right way to handle it or wrong way to handle it. Kickstarter is a company and they can make any damned choice they want. If they want to explicitly disallow guides on how to sexually assault women, they can do that. If they want to provide a platform for any project to be funded, they can do that too. It's a question of the image the company wants to project.

      Their first response was the response of a company (in the vein of Facebook) indicating that they provide a platform for users to do with what they want. Allowing it with no qualms is a perfectly acceptable response from that kind of a service.

      Their second response to apologize and state that they should have cancelled it, is the indication from a company saying that they are a service to aid deserving people trying to create something. This is a perfectly acceptable response from that kind of a service.

      Neither one can be judged as being correct or incorrect, as they both say very different things about the company that released them. They simply show different companies.

    38. Missing avatar

      Colleen Sorbera on

      Yeah . . . it's not like Cosmo because girls don't rape guys, except in maybe one to a billion times. Get real people. It's different.

    39. Missing avatar

      Rich Simpkins on

      The blog clearly took the quotes it used out of context. And aside from using explicit language, I see nothing different in the writings of the book to what you might find in Cosmopolitan Magazine. Kickstarter overreacted to some hypersensitive people.

    40. Missing avatar

      Jeremy Cape on

      @Miles Adams

      All that quote does is say that he's promoting date rape rather than rape. It's a meaningless statement since you can still rape somebody after a guy has, "gotten her phont number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and [gotten her alone]."
      It's really easy. Did she consent to sex? No? Then it's rape. No, it doesn't have to be, "Yes, I have signed a waiver indicating that we can have sex. Touch me in specified locations A, B, and C in approved manner X, Y, and Z."

      However, he doesn't say that either. What he says is to ignore what she says until she physically stops you. In many cases, his advice is to take her physically stopping you to mean that you just need to be more aggressive.

      Quit it with the equivocation. He says he doesn't advocate 'non-consensual sexual advances on strangers'. Fine. I've read his stuff. Show me one point where he suggests getting her consent. Show me one point where he suggests finding out at all, in any fashion, whether the physical contact is desired.

      You know why it isn't there? Because he doesn't just say to make the first move. He says to make every move. Everything is decided by the man. In multiple places he explains that, as the man, it is your job to always do things first. To always decide what is happening.

      Yes, I agree that the part about putting her hand on your cock is taken wildly out of context in a desire to make it look worse. You know the worst part about that? It was unnecessary. The book is bad enough on its own and needs no twisting.

      That said, you should re-read your last sentence. Yeah, selfish lovers suck. Yeah, women and men can both be selfish lovers. No, that does not give you the right to decide what they consent to. Consent isn't a gift. It's a pre-requisite.

    41. Miles Adams on

      @Jeremy Cape

      I agree with most of your points, but I think your summation of three is problematic.

      5) The example phrase given is not "to get out of trouble," because testing a boundary and being rebuffed is not "being in trouble." The phrase is intended to prevent guys from making the mistake of saying "But why not?" or "C'mon, pleeeeaaaasssse?" or "Fine! Be that way!" or some other immature, petulant remark. It's also to avoid "Oh god, did I do something wrong?" or "I'm sorry! I'm sorry!" or other products of an anxious mind.

      6) All seduction guides are for shy guys, and this is relevant, because what makes shy guys shy is anxiety. The fear of doing something wrong, of being too dominant, of offending, or of accidentally date raping someone (it's utterly ludicrous that we now speak of rape as something that can be done "accidentally" and without the rapists knowledge). Any guide for such men is going to have to constantly cajole them to be assertive, to be dominant, and to reassure them that it is actually okay to make a move, push boundaries and be exciting and spontaneous when you're with a woman.

      9) I read the "Fucking ravish her." line as a summation of the paragraph. That is, ravishing her would mean "Let your hands roam free. Squeeze her ass. Rub the side of her breasts. Rub your hands up and down her legs. Make her push your hand away as you get closer to her vagina."

      I think your reading is wildly inflammatory.

    42. Missing avatar

      Druaentia on

      Thank you!!! Thank you!! This does not go unnoticed.

    43. miya on

      @Jeffrey Dean

      Hi. Rape victim here. This book advocates sexual assault, harassment, and rape. You're going to tell me I'm wrong, when I've seen sexual assault and experienced it myself? This is textbook assault... literally.

      You're missing the part where he's saying to touch her without consent and invade her personal boundaries before she even has a chance to say no. THAT IS NOT OKAY. As I've seen on a t-shirt before... "DON'T F--ING TOUCH ME."

      Rape apologists make me want to throw up. You're bringing back awful memories with your support of this and frightening denial of how harmful it is. Thanks, buddy.

      Also, don't speak for me or any other victims of assault when you try to pretend you're on our side by saying crap like "being against this book takes away seriousness from actual victims." You are the enemy. You will never be my ally, as long as you think a book promoting this conduct is fine and dandy.

      PS- Having spent my teenage years reading Cosmo and the like, they have NEVER mentioned removing a man's body autonomy. Even if they, theoretically, did; how does that justify this book?

      You are gross and so is the author.

    44. Missing avatar

      Jeremy Cape on

      @Colleen

      Bullshit. Pure bullshit. Yes, it is rare. I'll give two reasons why it is rare.

      1) While there is a huge stigma attached to a woman being raped, there is an even bigger stigma attached to a man who was raped, much less by a woman. As a result, it is heavily, heavily underreported.
      2) Few laws are worded in a way that make it even legally possible for a woman to rape a man.

      People like you fall into the first category.

      @Rich

      Either you didn't look at what was actually written, or you are unaware of what sexual assault and rape are. I'll leave it up to you to determine which category you fall under.

    45. Missing avatar

      Mia Kohn on

      Yes! Thank you :)

      and to the maker of the guide: HA HA TAKE THAT, DICKWAGON!

    46. Margarita Lau on

      Absolutely disgusting. Your excuses hold no water. If you were so deeply concerned about procedure you could've temporarily suspended it pending investigation. Congratulations! You've been instrumental in funding a manual on how to sexually assault women!

    47. Cape Cod Offseason-In Season on

      Jesus what a bunch of wusses. The fact remains you freaks who complain about this stuff will never be able to overturn biology. Men want options to have multiple women and will find the way to this goal. Or not. But you will not dictate this....This is nature and not misogynist social construct.

    48. Alexia Kealey on

      @Terence Bowlby
      "Without seeing the content"?? They've linked the cached article.

      @Mike Maring
      It is a very smoothly written guide and on the surface, it does come off as tips to gain confidence, talk smoothly, etc. Pick up tips. However, on the creators blog and reddit he posted excerpts and boasts ranging from "personal space is for pussies" to "force her to rebuff your advances" and in terms of sex "don't ask for permission". Clearly that reads as far more disturbing than a 'helpful guide'.

    49. miya on

      Men wanting multiple sexual partners is not the same thing as sexual assault on women. I am not even sure how you made that leap.