Kickstarter

Creator Moose Man about 11 hours ago

We have an update and things are progressing.......I'm liking the KS green variant which is one of the styles I ordered.

Creator Justin Young about 14 hours ago

Please remember I still believe in this project and I fully expect Touch Time to be an awesome watch once the bugs are worked out. With that said:

Fun stuff Shawn and Moose Man!

Shawn as you wanted to remind people that of the "be respectful and considerate" line and Moose Man was so great to point out that communication isn't really key to a Kickstarter program.
While I do think Shawn has a point due to a few folks being less respectful and one guy was downright offensive. I respectfully think coming to Donald's aid at this point is a disservice to this project.

For example (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics#Acco):
"What should creators do if they're having problems completing their project?"
"...Sharing the story, speed bumps and all, is crucial. Most backers support projects because they want to see something happen and they'd like to be a part of it. Creators who are honest and transparent will usually find backers to be understanding..."

"...If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator..."

The above is part of the reason there is so much "whining." It really doesn't take long to keep the backers informed of what is going on. Even if there really isn't anything to report. A short note of, "so over the last two weeks we did this... blah blah blah." In fact the projects I've worked on over the years this was expected.
I really would like to highlight ..."backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability..." this is what I've personally done via the comment section (granted sometimes more snarky than required.) Donald has repeated promised updates and has repeatedly broken those promises. That (to me) has been unacceptable. I'm perfectly ok with not having the watch on my wrist. I've been in develop long enough to understand this. But again not keeping the backers informed (to me) is unacceptable.

Creator Moose Man about 20 hours ago

It would be interesting if KS allowed the backers to see the level of the pledge by the commentator.

Now I'm not one of the top backers but my pledges combined are just a shade less because I didn't multiple pledges using different emails.

If the 13 or so backers who pledged at the highest level are the ones doing most of the complaining then I might understand the whining.

But I suspect that they are not and I'm on the positive side even though my pledge(s) are more than the second highest level.

This was the second project I backed after backing another project that has still only partially delivered my final pledge.

Sure, I want my watches but I understand the problems and understood the process.

Would I like more communication, sure who wouldn't but at this time that still doesn't take precedent over a quality product being delivered.

To provide us with much more than communication would take away from the time necessary to focus on the task of production and Q.C. and I'm fine with not having details, charts, accounting and other things I've seen requested.

What's the point? I committed to the crowd funding and I'm fully aware of the pitfalls of waiting well over a year for a reward based upon my first supported project.

I've supported others that have delivered in the meantime but they were no where near as technical as this one - And I'm happy to still be waiting.

A video might make me feel warm and fuzzy but it won't put the watch in my hand any sooner and may actually take time away from the process of doing just that.

Creator Paul Sprangers 1 day ago

The wining may be amusing (or annoying), but don't forget that there are over 2000 backers. Only a few or them leave comments here, which aren't always negative in the first place. I suppose that the production team is very aware of these figures. Anyhow, I never noticed any bad feeling in Donald updates, other than his regret about the delay. The vast majority (me included) still seems positive - or at least understands that quality needs time.

Creator Shawn Aronson 1 day ago

At least we are all getting entertained by all the crying.
I'm not sure if you all realize what goes into making a new board and programming it.
Everything was redesigned from the ground up. So it all needs to be tested again.
Try building electronics yourself and writing software for it. Then re-design it and rewrite the software for it again. Their web site won't sell anything if they don't say its coming out soon.
I'm sure they just haven't updated it yet since they don't have an exact date.

I check this comment section almost daily just to see what new whining and complaints are being posted. Its kind of funny in a way. You all think kickstarter is a store where you buy stuff.
In reality its a crowd sourcing site. People don't purchase they fund.. There is a difference.
When you agreed to give the money it was so that they could make the product better.
If they wanted to they could have delivered on time but the quality and reputation of Phosphor would be at stake. I'm sure Donald feels badly that he couldn't deliver on time and had to go back to the drawing board to make a product he can be proud to have his company's name on it.
You all are making him feel worse by posting all the complaints. If you were nice about it maybe he would show up and post updates more often.

Think about it.. put yourself in his shoes for a minute and think about all the negative feedback in here. Would you want to be around all that bad energy when you are stressed out and working long hours to make sure that everything is perfected before delivery?
Has anyone seen the link below that says "Be respectful and considerate"?

Lets enlighten everyone:
==================================================
Be respectful and considerate

This means:
•Don’t harass or make personal attacks.
•Don't post obscene, hateful, or objectionable content.
•Don't post copyrighted content without permission. Only post content that you have the rights to.
•If you don't like a project, don't back it. No need to be a jerk.

Violating these rules or our Terms of Use may result in your account being deleted and/or your project being suspended. That's not fun for anyone, so please follow these simple rules very carefully. Cool? Cool.
==================================================

Creator Karl Mok 2 days ago

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/is-lateness-failure

Creator Thomas 2 days ago

Saying that they burned the money is just silly, hey provided production updates this may - so it should be possible to get them this year... but probably not until september-december, considering how long it takes to mass-produce after the tooling is completed.

But.... Since their website takes pre-orders and it says it should ship in July, something is not smelling right...

Creator Moose Man 3 days ago

Refund - nope not unless the Project cannot be fulfilled per

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics#faq_41860

Creator Ryan Doyle 3 days ago

could i get my money back?

Creator Jason E 3 days ago

I agree with Justin and Dustin, and everyone else wanting more responsibly from Donald, Donald addressed me personally in his updates comments and just gave more company talk/jargon and no certain dates or deadline updates. He doesn't know whats going on at this point I guess(timeline wise).

The money is GONE now unfortunately, the best we can do is leave this site and just wait for a watch to someday(year?!?!?) to show up in the mail/doorstep. It really sucks that the money is gone, but it is. On another note, this is an example of a Kickstarter with an unrealistic goal(50k) I can't imagine that would have done anything for a project of this length although maybe we're the reason Donald has taken this long(money to blow and sit back and have fun with) I'd personally like to see some charts/timelines how our money has been/is being spent.

Also a FIRM OR MORE SOLID ETA on these FINAL WATCHES that we've been waiting for for so long is DUE NOW DONALD.

Creator Julian Thong 4 days ago

Kickstarter will not seem to care about the delay here either (after I personally asking them to looking into the project owner's lacking attitude). Donald, to be frank, I am really disappointment with your attitude towards this project. So unprofessional. I hope you can start putting more effort and get all your outstanding promiseS done.

Creator Justin Young 4 days ago

You must be new around here Joseph. I'm going to help you out with Donald speak. When he says "next week" that means "within the next 5 weeks.... maybe."

I hope that cleared that up for you. And welcome to the comment board.

Creator Janardan Nathan 5 days ago

There are always delays. And life moves on :)

Creator Joseph Mikhail 5 days ago

Update #14 · May 5, 2013:
"I am in China this week and will be able to provide further updates and show working samples in next week."

So where is the update with pics or video of the working samples?

Creator Dustin 6 days ago

Also, in my last comment, I didn't mean that Formlabs started their company in October of last year... Simply that the started working on their Kickstarter backed project in October of last year. I don't need some Internet trolls trying to rip into all I just said because of a misunderstood sentence ha ha.

Creator Dustin 6 days ago

It's pretty sad when Formlabs (who started in October of last year) is already shipping out 3D PRINTERS and we can't even get an update for a simple watch. I know others will tell me to be patient and all of that fun stuff... But I have been a customer of Phosphor for years and have half of their product line so I know they're capable of way more than what they're showing us and that makes me upset. If a fairly NEW company like Formlabs can create, manufacture and ship a state-of-the-art home 3D printer before an ESTABLISHED company like Phosphor can do the same for a watch (which watches are ALL THEY MAKE) and we can't even get a steady flow of updates. That's complete crap if you ask me. I know everyone here is about "patience for a product made right" and I understand that. But when you don't live up to your promises of posting a mere one paragraph update with a blurry cellphone picture when you say you will... That's crazy. I bet he has time to go out to eat, hang out on the weekends, travel and use a computer/cellphone/tablet... But not the time to say "Hey, this is what's happening and here's a pic for confirmation" or even "nothing to really report but I wanted to let you know we're still working diligently to get this awesome new product on your wrist". We, the backers, just want to know that our hard earned $$$ didn't go to some rich CEO to play with and ignore us.

Creator FallenHalo on May 16

i seem to not be having a good run with the projects i back? first the Geode from iCache
and now this?

Creator Barry Sewell on May 13

Ok everybody it's time to relax and wait. Also I just noticed that beside the post a comment button there is a quote / guide. " be respectful and considerate". Anybody notice it??

Creator Cesar Del Pino on May 10

Shawn sorry the comments were not directed at you whatsoever. I agree that reading the comments is more amusing than the wait has been. Hopefully we are wearing these watches soon. Regards

Creator Shawn Aronson on May 10

I wasn't posting the legal terms because I was being negative, Cesar.
Bassem had a question and didn't know where to find the answer so I pasted it in comments.
I am very patient and confident that phosphor is making the watch every bit as amazing as they claim it will be. I am hopeful and looking forward to the time when I can wear it but for now all we have is comments to keep us occupied (and entertained) :)

Creator Cesar Del Pino on May 9

Hey guys relax a little. Please note that legal statements below do not define a time line for a reward to be delivered, as such you have little legal argument to claim fraud or a refund. Phosphor seems to be a reputable company that had some trouble developing a product and they were clear about that. I am not familiar with product development but it is obvious that these things can happen. Whilst there has been a some history of scams on this site, Phosphor is clearly a legitimate business, that already has a strong product line and a relatively large distribution network. They don't need the negative publicity from a failed KS campaign so be patient I have no doubt we will get our pledges fulfilled.

Creator Alex von der Linden on May 7

Shawn, you did research instead of acting like a spoiled kid?! How dare you, sir. How dare you.

Creator Shawn Aronson on May 7

FYI: Terms of use link

http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

Creator Shawn Aronson on May 7

That was from the help section of kickstarter in the top right of your page.
40+ Days puts us in mid July or August it looks like.
Possibly September if the deadlines aren't met.

Creator Shawn Aronson on May 7

Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?

in Kickstarter Basics / Accountability

No. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds as transactions are between backers and creators, and creators receive all funds (after fees) soon after their campaign ends. Creators have the ability to refund backers through Amazon Payments (for US projects) and Kickstarter (for UK projects).

If I am unable to complete my project as promised, what should I do?

in Creator Questions / While your project is live

If you realize that you will be unable to follow through on your project before funding has ended, you are expected to cancel it. If your project is successfully funded, you are required to fulfill all rewards or refund any backer whose reward you do not or cannot fulfill. A failure to do so could result in damage to your reputation or even legal action by your backers.

To avoid problems, don't over-promise when creating your project. If issues arise, communicate immediately, openly, and honestly with your backers.

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

in Kickstarter Basics / Accountability

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

Creator Bassem Hamdy on May 7

How do refunds work? I'm guessing that question will go unanswered as well. There's no point in getting angry, we've been hoodwinked - this is no different than sending money to a Nigerian Prince. As a fellow sucker I'm just dealing with it and reporting this as fraud to the credit card company. I suggest you all do the same. Lies and empty promises are fraud and luckily with American Express there is purchase protection.

Creator Bassem Hamdy on May 7

How do refunds work? I'm guessing that question will go unanswered as well. There's no point in getting angry, we've been hoodwinked - this is no different than sending money to a Nigerian Prince. As a fellow sucker I'm just dealing with it and reporting this as fraud to the credit card company. I suggest you all do the same. Lies and empty promises are fraud and luckily with American Express there is purchase protection.

Creator Soumitro Mukherjee on May 6

Donald, appreciate the feedback and the recent update. As much like the next guy would love to have this watch on hand, I believe you are doing the right thing by making sure the quality delivered would be as promised. And all this indeed takes time and almost always runs behind schedule.

Having said that, 40+ days to retool might suggest some whip cracking in needed in China to pick up the pace. While doing you rounds in China, I suggest you let that whip crack loud and clear, and demand some production deadlines, which you could then share with us to make us feel more involved.
Wish your trip a success.

Creator Jeetender Randhawa on May 6

plese provide a shipping update, the update does not disclose a shipping date and you are running behind schedule, i am really unhappy with the delay in the watch, especially due to the lack of updates and replies, please respond on kickstarter page asap about possible shipping date as the original and adjusted timeframe is long gone and there is no update for a month of the status.

Creator Srujan C on May 5

guys,
you should start going to the phosphor facebook page and asking them for updates there more often https://www.facebook.com/PhosphorWatches atleast ,that way it might force them to reply to avoid negative publicity

Creator joe cosentino on May 4

To Nick
Well said, i feel the same way brother. i wonder how many more of use feel like we have been taken advantage of. This was my first and LAST kickstarter. I unsubscriber to the news letter last night, I say find other fishes take money from, because there not getting any from me!

Creator Moose Man on May 3

I'll add that if he bought a Pebble he still hasn't received as they haven't fulfilled the pledges yet. Also I hope he doesn't have an iPhone as their software is not working as advertised which Pebble admits freely but wait he doesn't know that as he has yet to receive his watch.

Creator Alex von der Linden on May 3

Nick, that you consider pointing out reality to be "Criticism" tells me a lot. That you have made many other assumptions about the TouchTime is also interesting. Time will tell.

Creator Paul Sprangers on May 3

Dear Nick,

According to your disclaimer, you won't read this reply before August or September, but nevertheless... I've taken a look at the Pebbles site on this domain, and learned that it reached its goal half a year before Touch Time did, but released its first production sample only a month ago. So, Touch Time is not exactly doing worse in this respect.

On the other hand, Pebbles did have more updates indeed... and what a cool watch it is! Almost as cool as Touch Time - if it ever will be released.

Creator Nick on May 3

It's simply pathetic how many false promises have been made about upcoming updates, upcoming photos, upcoming videos -- and the constantly-sliding completion date of this project. God forbid anyone criticize Donald -- or the misleading statements and promises up future photos/videos/info -- or his blind supporters and attack dogs (lead by Alex -- who can see no wrong with anything related to this project) jump in immediately to criticize the comments and show how misinformed we all are (and how brilliant this watch will be, and that we just need to give Donald more time, because he's so busy and doesn't have time to update us).

I've already moved on and bought a Pebble...and resigned myself to being surprised (no, shocked) some day in late 2014 or early 2015.....when a package arrives from Phosphor with a TouchTime watch inside (which will likely look nothing like what was originally conceived, with a note of apology about how my selection of rewards was not available, and which contains a much slimmed down watch in terms of features (compared to the hype on Kickstarter).....and which will seem like about 2 generations of technology behind Pebble's 3rd generation model. At this rate, even Apple's watch will be in stores before we see any of the promised photos and videos of the newest TouchTime prototype (much less the actual watch).

Ok...I'm ready...Let the attacks begin...but since I've lost any excitement or enthusiasm about this project, and stopped reading anything here regulalrly (since its just more and more people like me having lost any sense of support, followed by the same 2-3 people blindly defending the project and attacking the commenters for being dumb)...so I probably won't see Alex's attacks for another 3-4 months (when I check in here again to read the latest round of delays and excuses).

Creator Moose Man on May 2

Okay I should have said "back on the mainland"/

Creator Alex von der Linden on May 2

I am in Hawaii, so, that could very well be the case.

Creator Moose Man on April 30

@Alex von der Linden - as much as I generally respect your comments - Joseph's timeline is accurate. Donald did post on March 25th so it may be that KS is time stamping the comments based upon individual locations? So while it was the 25th here in the US it may have been the 26th in your locations?

Creator Alex von der Linden on April 30

Joseph,

Let's post some relevant quotes. From the April 9th update. "In next update we will be able to show video of the pilot samples".

On March 26th (not the 25th) "Then will show video of final pilot build that will support the larger CR2450 battery once completed."

Facts aren't your strong suit, eh?

Creator Soumitro Mukherjee on April 30

I agree.

Creator Joseph Mikhail on April 29

Where's the video? It's the end of April and on March 25 it was said that the parts were in the factory and video would be posted soon. How long can it possibly take to make a simple video?

Creator Julian Thong on April 29

It is ok if it is just photos update (which won't be even expecting a video after soooooo many empty promises)....Another 3 weeks since an update....sigh

Creator Roger Schwartz on April 25

Brendan, I have a Pebble and waited 11 months to get it. It was well worth the wait. I am sure the Touch time will be worth the wait as well. I dol wish Donald would update more frequently, as Pebble Team did every two weeks.

Creator Justin Young on April 25

I backed a project I believed in and I still do believe in this project. So I'm perfectly ok with the delays. I have no doubts this is going to be a fantastic watch.

I mean it has to be as Donald has created 5 updates in the last 7 months. It is clear that he is spending all his time getting the development, logistics, testing, and othe small details perfect. It isn't like he has the 15-20 minutes to post an update for our viewing pleasure.

I mean sure if he had a Touch Time watch on his wrist to remind him to take the 15-20 minutes to create an update he would have. We all know that he doesn't have one yet. But once he does 'Oh Boy' get ready for all the updates!

All snark aside. I really do think this will be a great product and I really have no doubt that Donald is working hard to get this project done and as perfect as can be. I am however underwhelmed and disappointed with the lack of updates AFTER we funded this project for phosphor. One of th reasons I fund projects on Kickstarter to to watch the process unfold and unfortunately this project missed that mark for me.

One last thing - please stop with all the "I want my money back," you didn't "buy" anything... you funded a project with the idea that you "may" get something for your pledge. If the project fails it fails. If you wanted a "product" go to a store.