Kickstarter

Creator Dustin Deckard 2 days ago

Hi Urutsini - your email to me wasn't ignored - I just don't have anything to send you. I've always said that emailing me would simply put your name on a list I've collected. As you're in Australia, I don't know the first thing about what legal rights you have. If I were you, I'd do some searching on whether or not you have the right to a small claims suit in the state of California. Sorry, I'll let you know if I come across anything else.

Creator Urutsini 3 days ago

Hey all. I've just jumped back on here after a few months to see what was happening with this project. My request for a refund from Alex Peake months ago and an email to codeheroclassaction at the same time have been ignored and a glance at the comments below suggests that things haven't improved. Can anyone update me on what is happening and what, as a backer from Australia, I can do at this stage? Thanks

Creator Dustin Deckard on June 11

Yi Xu - email me at codeheroclassaction@gmail.com and I'll send you the contact information I have for Alex. Same goes for anyone else interested.

Creator Dustin Deckard on June 11

Holy crap. I just realized "hey, it's Tuesday" - just when I thought this project couldn't surprise me any more, another blatantly missed deadline with no acknowledgement from Alex. There's no update over on primerlabs.com, either. Checked my email, and sure enough, there's the angry backers! I'm responding to as many of you as possible with the contact information I have for Alex. It's easy enough to look up for yourself - it's on the web publicly, but I'd rather not post it here. Please refer to my last few comments with instructions on how to send Alex a formal "demands letter" with the help of the California courts system.

Creator The Black Well on June 11

Unbelievable, what a slap in the face! Another outright lie about releasing a major update. I honestly do not even care about the updates at this point. I want a refund or, barring that, to take legal action. Having only risked ~$30, I was willing to just write this off; but for Alex to continue adding insult to injury is just too much.

Creator Yi Xu on June 11

So. It is Tuesday. Where is the major update promised for Monday? Alex, you seriously just pushing your luck. Does anybody know the address for Prime Lab for me to send the demand letter?

Creator Jonathan Jou on June 8

I don't think skepticism or frustration is really what you're faced with at this point, Alex. Since you announced an upcoming date instead of releasing something more immediate, the burden of proof is yours. I'm not holding my breath, and I don't think anyone else is. Will your response to our concerns include an explanation as to why you didn't just respond first? As far as your legal obligations go, a major update on Monday isn't going to resolve the current situation.

I don't think we're asking for an update here anymore, or even a release. We'd appreciate your honesty, and I'd like to think we'll listen to your side of the story, but you need to provide results and answers, and even if you provide both of those things that won't change the fact that you promised people products, and from what we've seen there's no reason to believe that you'll ever be able to deliver those products.

I hope you have more than a few new tutorials and editor features come Monday. I hope you have answers, and most importantly, I hope you have an actual plan, some sort of peace offering, and an exit strategy. We need to know when you'll be ready to give up, and what we get when that happens, since our confidence in your success aren't what they used to be.

Creator Steven Barsam on June 7

This entire project makes me sad. It is so bold and exciting, yet I know how difficult it is to develop (Well, I have a general understanding xD.) I'll keep waiting patiently :P

Creator Dustin Deckard on June 7

That's the 6th time in the last few months you've promised an impending major update. I can't muster much enthusiasm, but I can say I'll definitely try out the new build, assuming it gets released and I can log into it with my own account.

Creator Dustin Deckard on June 6

Thanks for elaborating Jonathan. It's a messy situation, and there's nothing wrong with being sympathetic. Personally, I feel taken advantage of at this stage, especially with my extra communication with Alex, both in person and over Skype and more, so I'm not sympathetic myself.

If anyone would like to go ahead and make an easy "first step" towards taking personal legal action against Alex, the California Courts website has a form to help you create a "Demands Letter" to send to Alex. Sending him a demands letter proves you've used proper channels to request a refund. From what I understand, individuals are entitled to create a suit against Alex as a person, since he Kickstarted this under his own name, rather than Primer Labs. If you need his address, it's easy enough to find. About a hundred people sent it to me back when I mentioned the email I set up, codeheroclassaction@gmail.com. Feel free to shoot me an email there if you have any questions - I'm doing my best to keep up with responses, although I don't have as much information as some backers have hoped.
Here's that California Courts site: http://www.courts.ca.gov/11145.htm

Creator Jonathan Jou on June 5

I think it's time for action, honestly. I think we're well past waiting, and completely past hoping that words (well-intending or otherwise) will produce a response.

Let us know how it goes reaching the backers, and I'm guessing we should let Alex know that we're done waiting. Whether or not Alex finishes Code Hero, he needs to prove to us, or a judge, that he can do the following:

Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date.
A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

The only question here is if Alex has any chance of fulfilling the rewards, which everything we know suggests is impossible. The plane ticket, the special edition for schools, the USBs, and the tshirts are all completely out of reach, much less the physical product. It's even debatable if a "good faith effort" was made to fulfill the rewards, since Alex was is recorded in an interview admitting that he decided not to fulfill the rewards, even at the time when he had the funds, and even had more funds than he asked for to finish the entire project.

If it sounds like I'm covering for him, I guess I'm just trying to be professional about what's happened. His position is indefensible and to some extent I'm saying there's no point kicking him while he's down. If we're done waiting, then we're probably also done spending time wondering what Alex is doing keeping us waiting.

Even if the right thing is to take him to court, my feeling is that we should be sympathetic, not accusing. That's all.

Creator Dustin Deckard on June 5

Jonathan - thanks for your constructive comments on the situation, from one backer to another. My question is, how much more forgiving should we be? If this were still December or January, things would be different. But it's been 6 months since the shit hit the fan, so to speak. Since then, we've been made over a dozen broken commitments about updates, better communications, etc. A community manager was "hired" and apparently, promptly scared off. And now it's been 3 months to the day since the last backer update, which of course we were promised wouldn't happen again. I cannot find any "wiggle room" where we should be forgiving. Doesn't mean the few of us who have been vocal shouldn't be nicer, but I see zero reason to be forgiving or tolerant of this behavior. The worst part of this, from my perspective, is that if the nickel-and-dime suits start flowing in for Alex, he's probably just going to get ruined. But the power is in his hands - the ability to update his backers has never disappeared. In the meantime, I think I'm going to go back to trying to track down one of the (2) $10k backers to see if they've had any communications from Alex.

Creator Jonathan Jou on June 5

Agreed, Tomimt. But all the communcation Alex has been able to offer us makes it look to me like the more vocal we get about wanting answers to our questions, the harder it becomes for Alex to be honest with us. If he had incredibly promising news to tell us, I'd like to think he wouldn't be waiting so long to share it. It's not unreasonable to be afraid that telling (rightfully) furious backers that things aren't as he'd promised will further hurt any chance to reconcile with them, and this just seems like one of those unfortunate situations where the harder we push, the less we're ever going to hear.

And I really do believe that if we want to get anything out of this, our options are to be supportive and encouraging, or to take action and move us past frustrated speculation. If we want something other than a chance to voice our frustrations (where we're not even sure Alex is listening), it's very possible that the harsher we seem as a crowd, the less likely it is that Alex will respond to us.

That said, I'm not saying we need to be nice to him. I'm saying that our best bet is to let him know that the way this is working needs to change--either he can change, or we can change things for him. Whatever the facts may be, they need to come to light, and we'd really like it if this could happen voluntarily. Given the physical rewards he promised (and the interview in which he admitted to withholding rewards), at this point we have a legitimate case.

While I'm hoping for a peaceful resolution that doesn't punish Alex for having big dreams, that decision is in his hands, and the least we can do is make it as clear as possible that talking to us is his best option, not his worst.

So yes, I think that the less forgiving we seem, the less likely it is that he'll ask for forgiveness, and the more likely it is that things will come to a head that leaves everyone unsatisfied.

Creator Tomimt on June 5

@Jonathan Jou: How are we becoming a part of the problem? We don't have real influence over how this project has used the money, nor we have real influence on how Alex is leading it.

At the moment all we have is speculation, because we don't know anything concrete and the lack of communication from Alex is a big influence in this.

Creator Jonathan Jou on June 4

There's fair reason to believe that Alex's hands haven't been idle. There's also plenty of reason to be concerned with his progress. Honestly, though, I don't think the question is "what happens if he doesn't have much?" so much as it is "what do we do with what we might get?"

It's not particularly constructive to wonder why Alex hasn't been forthcoming. We'll know that when he's ready, and I feel like the most respectful thing to do is to let him tell us instead of putting words in his mouth.

Until then, our best bet is to wait... and see what the law says when push comes to shove here. I don't know that all of us worry about getting our money back, but the least we can do is let the more vested backers put their money towards more promising ventures, and put down our pitchforks and torches and let Alex move on. I'd like nothing more for him to keep going with the project, but this format is hurting him more than it's helping him and we're becoming part of the problem instead of the solution.

Creator Dustin Deckard on June 4

Mitchell - that's certainly a possibility I've considered. I have not spent much time in Code Hero because, at least for me, it's not yet a very good learning tool - I haven't noticed any significant improvements to the overall experience in any build that's been released since the very "first" one that was available the day this project launched on KS. I've been waiting for a more polished version that will be a better use of my time, but I'm not confident that's coming. There are improvements, surely - but we've been asking Alex to post a change-log for months and months and that's never happened, which is probably another indicator that your comment has some truth to it.

Creator Mitchell on June 4

What happens if he open sources the code however, and the community finds out he hasn't actually put any work on it past the demo that was shown years ago? If he doesn't have anything to show, it's probable not due to embarrassment or striving for perfection, but more likely a lack of anything to show.

Creator Dustin Deckard on June 2

Majugi - well said. Some like myself have been pretty harsh, but weirdly forgiving at the same time. I'd still be thrilled to see Alex deliver on this thing, but it's so far out of reach now, and he's broken so many promises. I just want him to hand everything over to the community. I think most of us regret giving him our money, and if he can't give us our money back and also can't (based on trends) give us a game, he ought to hand over everything he does have and get this thing off of his plate. Otherwise it's only a matter of time before the small suits like your case example start piling up on him.

Creator Majugi on June 2

If I ever Kickstart a project, I want Jonathan Jou to be one of my backers. His comments here every couple months express my own feelings about this project in the nicest and most constructive way possible.

Having said that, it's disappointing that those comments have yet to be acknowledged and their advice goes unheeded. I'm sympathetic to Alex in a lot of ways because I'm all too familiar with projects that go astray, but this cannot continue. This project cannot be completed as promised (including physical rewards) with no budget and a good faith attempt to do it anyway, while valiant, would be utterly foolish and a hellish experience I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Even the harshest critics here have been extremely forgiving and for good reason: we all supported this project and none of us want to see it fail. There is now a precedent for a failed Kickstarter, but it's a precedent Primer Labs should be trying very hard to avoid: http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2013/01/8590-kickstarter-lawsuit-neil-singh/

Creator Threemoons on June 1

So where do we stand now? I, too, want to see this thing finished and am still excited RE the project.

Creator Tomimt on May 25

Constantly broken promises and schedules are really hurting the reputation of this project. It is evident, that this project is in a dire need of rescaling of the project, as now it looks like the visioned game is not possible for this team.

Creator Jonathan Jou on May 23

Alex,

The mere fact that you're still committed to this is commendable. It looks like you'd made some attempts at being more forthcoming and honest with the status of this project, and that's also to be commended.

As it stands, your funds won't see you through to completion, your fundraising prospects haven't come through, and it seems like what you'd really like is to be shielded from the scrutinizing eyes of educators, developers, and other hopefuls who hoped you would succeed. We're still in the position where we don't know what you're making, when you plan to deliver, or how you plan to accomplish this, and it's unlikely that there's any good will left to count on as you announce deadlines you later find unrealistic.

If you want to keep working on Code Hero, I applaud you. If you want to keep chasing your dream, I won't stop you. But if you have any hopes of salvaging the relationship you have with your backers, I'm going to recommend the following:

1. Stop developing the game. For now. Not everyone on your team has to stop, but as the face of your company, your priority is to bring us back into the loop.
2. Show us what you have. Right now. Odds are, you'll impress a lot more of us with what you have done, than disappoint us with what you were hoping to have ready.
3. Let the world help. We believed in you, your project, and your vision, because we wanted you to succeed. If you've got something great, there are over seven thousand people who want to be a part of it.

It may be a long time before you can become commercially viable, but the path to a thriving, enthusiastic community around your platform is not only shorter but necessary for positive press and earning back our trust. It's been over a year now since you started this Kickstarter, and you really have come a long way. But the chances of this being an overnight success are unrealistic, and the path to profitability is a pipe dream at best.

You've made a lot of promises. It's okay that you don't fulfill all of them, but be honest with the people most invested in your success. Give us what you have, and then, when you're ready, wow us with what you knew you could achieve. The world will still be here when that happens, and our watchful eyes will hopefully become more patient.

Best of luck,
Jonathan

Creator Scott Mahan on May 22

Well, the 21st has come and gone, and as usual, the air around this project is reeking of more BS, and I don't mean Banker-Speak. Granted, Peake didn't say the 21st of WHICH month...

Creator MIchelle Hoole on May 22

I'd like to request a refund too. As a teacher, I was really excited about this and am very disappointed with the whole situation.

Creator Dustin Deckard on May 22

Here's the news post that was published on primerlabs.com by Alex on Monday night: "Code Hero's first alpha was released at last year's PAX. Our second major alpha is coming at this year's PAX and we've submitted a build for the PAX 10 showcase. We're going to post the new build tomorrow for all our backers and players to try. We look forward to telling you more about it tomorrow night!"

Creator Cody Claborn on May 22

It's the 22nd. Has the alpha been released yet?

Creator Dustin Deckard on May 20

Requests were made back in Dec/Jan (and further back than that, from some users) to provide clear instructions on how to access the existing alpha builds - they were never given, although in a previous update (#20) they did say again that you can log in with "guest mode" - although this is not what backers want, it should be reiterated that it's an option if you're just looking to take a brief look at the game in its current condition. Also, there's a special support page at primerlabs.com/support/codehero for those still trying to get help with their login credentials.

Hopefully that helps a few backers, like Nancy and Evan below - it's a shame Shaun (the community manager) appears to have jumped ship, since no one else seems to be helping backers simply log into the game in its current condition.

Creator Nancy Hutchins on May 18

I agree with Evan. I also can't use the password reset to get into my supposedly set up account. And Alex, if your are scrambling for funds to finish the project, then where did all that KS money go in the first place? Didn't you already have this project started before launching the KS campaign? Then the funding should have been used to finalize this game.

Creator Evan Walker on May 16

I'm trying to figure out how you ran out of funds when you knew full well what it would take to actually do the project? Code Hero is a great idea, and I'm sure tons of people would actually play it, but now the name of the project (as well as your name, btw) is mired by the fact that you are now the most famous Kickstarter project, not because it's a good project, but because you've failed miserably to keep the backers apprised of what's going on and drastically underplanned the scope of the game.

I'm not wanting a refund just yet. More of what I'm after (and this may just be me having faith in the project), is help getting my CH account set up. It says I have an account, but it isn't actually sending the pw reset links.

Creator Cody Claborn on May 13

How do you go about requesting a refund? I was excited for this project but in the time it has taken just to make a half functioning demo I've taught myself how to program. I really was looking forward to this, but I'm extremely disappointed at the lack of progress and the lack of communication.

Creator Seth Hall on May 13

I guess it's a good thing this scheme wasn't titled "Project Hero: A Game That Teaches You to Meet Deadlines."

Glad I didn't lose too much money on this, anyway, but I agree with @Tomimt -- the people that paid lots of money for this must be a little unimpressed by what they've seen thus far.

Creator Tomimt on May 12

I think it's safe to say, that this particular project is pretty much dead. Alex and co. aren't even trying to communicate anymore. Personally my loss here isn't that great, but I do feel for those who pledged that 10k.

Creator Yi Xu on May 10

@Dustin: When are you plan to start the class action and salvage remain of this project? I doubt few backers still have faith in this project. I don't think Alex has anymore funding to complete this project nor refund much to everyone. I personally like to open source the project if possible.

Creator mrmonkeypbbt on May 10

so what happened to the weekly updates from the community manager?

Creator Yi Xu on May 7

I would also like to request a refund. There just too many missed promises and updates. This may soon lead to legal actions.

Creator Jack Barrington on May 5

I may as well request my refund again too. I haven't heard from anyone about my refund since I requested weeks ago.

Creator The Black Well on May 3

I guess I will go ahead and request my refund again as well. I think @Scott summed it up.

Creator Scott Mahan on May 2

Having not heard from anyone in months, despite your promise earlier in the year to communicate weekly via email, I requested a refund via email a few weeks ago. I've heard nothing back. Since it seems there is more responsiveness here, along with the signs and symptoms of a failed, busted project which include repeated missed promised deliveries, I'm again requesting a refund. Let me know if you need more information to process the refund.

Creator Dustin Deckard on April 24

I have been trying not to clog the feed here with my face, but it's been 7 days since my last comment. I have attempted to contact Shaun Hansel, the alleged community manager, but have not gotten a response. I would, once again, like to request a refund. I am tired of watching Alex fail to meet even his own goals over, and over, and over again.

Creator Chris Francis on April 22

This is such an insane trainwreck.

Creator Jack Barrington on April 17

Right, I see... Well I pledged $52 dollars so if I don't get a refund I will be very unhappy. I had to add an extra $10 for postage too..

Creator Dustin Deckard on April 17

Pete Edge received a refund via Paypal, but he was also a very squeaky wheel. :) He's the only refund that's been processed to my knowledge, and I believe he had pledged at the $13 level.

Creator Jack Barrington on April 17

Has anyone actually had a refund yet? (The ones who asked). Because I have asked Alex personally and asked Primer over an email without a reply.