205
Backers
$25,985
pledged of $25,000 goal
0
seconds to go
Funding Successful
This project successfully raised its funding goal on December 31, 2009.
Pledge $1 or more
You will receive updates about this project, including one or two emails from Josh while he in Mali, as well as a lot of gratitude for your support
Pledge $20 or more
You will receive a signed photograph taken by Josh while on his travels in Africa.
Pledge $50 or more
You will receive a cd of sounds and music recorded on the trip, as sculpted and edited by Josh upon his return. hand packaged.
Pledge $100 or more
You shall receive a CD of sounds and music recorded on the trip, as sculpted and edited by Josh upon his return. CD will be hand packaged, signed and numbered.
Pledge $150 or more
Supporters will receive a hand signed limited edition full color, art bound book containing photos, writing, drawings, etc... collected from the traveling party while on their adventures in Africa.
Pledge $200 or more
receive both the CD and Book from Josh's trip to Mali.
Project By
Has not connected their Facebook account.
Any updates Deacon? Two years since this was funded....
Still waiting to hear what's happening.
Deacon, will you please provide an update on the status of the project? Over 200 people pledged money for your trip, all on the assumption you'd provide us something in return. It's now been over 18 months since your journey. If you're not going to complete this project, please let us know.
So I guess we all got duped? Classy!
Goodness!
It's pretty crazy how people can find negativity in the most positive of places. Get a life!
I'm pretty late, obviously, to joining this discussion but just wanted to add that. I just met Josh Dibb and he seemed like a pretty amazing person. These people that start these political debates on websites like this are in anoth3r world. I can't begin to understand it. I was really just trying to look up some info on Mali and the festival and this is what I found. Oh well. Hey to josh anyway.
Cheers,
Ashley-Alabama
thanks for the guggenheim performance.... makes me even more interested in what is to come of this.
thanks everyone. and thanks andre. your voice was one of the thoughtful dissenters that actually really made me think about this whole thing a lot more. I am really happy that this feels better to you. long strange trip indeed, but i think an ultimately positive one. '
again... thanks to everyone who supported the project.
Congratulations, Josh and everyone!!
Hey Josh,
Congratulations on reaching your goal!
I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes of your trip (both artistically and in terms of making a difference in Mali)
Good luck at your show tonight,
Sam
so. very. interesting... so I was wrong, it *is* about helping Africans after all. just re-read the new and improved project page. what a long strange trip watching this project from start to finish...
anyhow, congratulations and happy new year!
Unfortunately I am in debt and only able to donate 5 dollars at this point in time, but even if that just helps Deacon buy a cheeseburger I am happy to help.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7576444.stm
Sounds like they do good work, Josh. You have my support.
Please look up TEMEDT. We feel that they are providing direct services. The money we raise is going directly to them.
In terms of the concern that we will not reach the 25,000... we feel confident that we will. Furthermore, though we have no way of lowering the goal (as per Kickstarters rules) we have begun to look into ways that will ensure that we will be able to donate whatever amount is raised even if it does not reach the 25,000 mark.
thank you for your concerns.
over here doing our best....
merry christmas.... happy holidays...
josh
I'm interested in hearing the cd he records while in Mali, to get an idea of his impressions while there. I'm sure it will be very groovy. In terms of the donation, it's always better to donate to organizations directly, that provide direct services to people.
I do understand there's a lot of promotional interest in this project. Anyway the need to be critical comes mainly from the lack of details given in the project explanation (enormous sum of money plus very few details, you can't really blame the people for being critical!) and the high social status and recognizability of the project starter himself.
I haven't noticed that Deacon found a label who pays $10.000 to cover all the production costs (trip + book + cd).
As far as I remember the initial request didn't mention this TEMEDT charity project, but asked for $25.000 just to cover the trip, the book and the cd. If the production costs are about $10.000 (as stated now in the project home), then there has been $15.000 over budget in the first place. The original project name even went as "Deacon (Animal Collective) at the Festival in the desert" without mentioning any charity thing going on!! I'm totally up for charity and helping these human rights organizations, but there has been something unclear here right from the start.
Were those extra money originally intended to be bought to Temedt? Why not stating it before then? It would have catch a lot more people! Or is it just a quick solution to save the reputation?
Now, why don't you lower the $25,000 goal to just $8,000? Temedt will have more chaces to get the funds, and I'm sure they rather have a safe $8,000 than a $25,000 they won't get.
Kickstarter's Community Guidelines read:
* Be courteous and respectful. Don't harass or abuse other members.
* Don't post obscene, hateful, or objectionable content.
* If you don't like a project, don't back it. No need to be critical.
Actions that violate these community rules or Kickstarter's Terms of Use may lead to an account or project being suspended or deleted.
http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines
It does have different standards, which are clearly stated in the guidelines section.
dalasv, I think your confused about what comments sections are for. If this site has different standards nearly every other comment section on the internet, then the only option they should allow is to put a smiley face emoticon.
Dalasv, no one is trying to defeat the project. Other's point of view are always essential to see both sides of the coin and help other people not to take what they see for good just because they have seen it on a website. As barnux says, some sort of feedback mechanism - good or bad - will help the people to make up their minds and back the project as wisely as they can, because we're talking about money, not peanuts.
I was talking about democracy because I've seen someone mentioning deleted posts, and I smelled a rat. As long as it adds something to the whole picture, or sheds some light on unknown detalis, or unearths one's point of view, any feedback should be welcome. People need to see these things as objectively as possible so no one takes advantage of his position, his name and the fact that he's a famous person.
I still hope he will play in Mali anyway, even if this project doesn't succeed, because it's such a great chance for the African people to see some western artist playing onstage. If he doesn't just because he doesn't reach the $25.000 mark, well, it will be outrageous 'cos he surely can afford the money needed for a 3-days trip himself.
I'm not sure I agree with you dalasv. I would think feedback would be important with regards to guiding future KS projects. If a project fails silently, you don't really learn anything about why it failed etc. I think some sort of feedback mechanism - for both positive and negative - could prove valuable.
My 2 cents.
Just looked down and saw you saying that deleting your comment would be anti-democratic. This isn't a democracy, it's a website for funding projects. I think you guys are just confused about what this space is. It has a specific purpose and function. Your personal blog would be a better place to air your opinions on this.
I'm not saying you shouldn't have opinions or express them, this just isn't the place for it.
If you want to talk about how the project will move forward, it makes sense, but it makes no sense to talk about how to defeat a project here. This place is for MAKING IT HAPPEN!
what's the best place to discuss a project if not the very place where the project is presented?
You should probably not back the project, then. As I see it, Kickstarter is a way to fund projects, not a political debate forum. There are appropriate places to discuss these issues, but it's not here.
I have been following the posts of this discussion and am pretty sad to see the shallow attitudes of most of the backers. Worse though is the illogical approach at rationalizing this project in light of all the other successful projects that have happened here. I want to address some things specifically that are being said that are extremely narrow minded...perhaps due to "fanboy" mentality or other delusions of virtuality (read: internet) versus reality.
1) Viral does not equal successful. We shouldn't squabble over what "viral" means either. The fact is Kickstarter is a new venture that still has kinks it needs to hammer out. This project is a perfect example of the growing pains. What many, including myself, are finding fault with is the fact that Yancey, Chris from Pitchfork and maybe even others behind the scenes are using their power and influence to stack the chips in favor of someone they all like in order to help this project succeed. Hence the nepotism remark below. Think about that. Imagine if these same people used their wide reaching influence to help ALL the artists, but they are not and that is why it is unfair. This is crucial in this debate regarding this particular project.
2) The question of who Kickstarter is truly for then remains unfortunately ambiguous. Again think. Josh to a large degree has an enormous fan base who pay for shows, albums, etc...most if not all of the artists who have projects here can not compete with that and shouldn't have to. (think signal to noise ratio) The main problem is that Kickstarter is invite only, meaning the staff must approve and deem the project worthy. By putting it on Pitchfork, making it project of the day and on the Kickstarter blog they have done that in spades. They obviously back Josh and want him to in effect make this site more prominent by tapping into his fanbase. This is what I called the "feedback loop of exposure" below. There needs to be a deeper understanding of who gets projects and why...especially if artists who already have huge fan bases want to leverage their projects through Kickstarter. I believe from the comments below that Josh could easily create a twitter account, amass his followers/fans, create a paypal account and raise the money all by himself...just like Amanda Palmer of Dresden Dolls who raised $20k overnight by directly appealing to her fanbase on twitter.
3) Which leads me to my final point. Deacon does not *need* Kickstarter, but perhaps they need him for exposure sake. Animal Collective even has a film debut at next years Sundance Festival!
http://sundance.bside.com/2010/films/oddsac_sundance2010
Africa is just a scapegoat. What is at stake is a directly funded solo record and art book project. This is not about Josh or his fans helping Africans, so stop confusing the issue. What people are being critical about is that this artist has an unfair advantage that other artists here don't have. The short time period and expensive goal only illuminate that disparity in greater detail. Most projects asking anywhere near that much money require several months of promotion with constant blog updates, plenty of discussion and full transparency the entire way. That is what this project is lacking apart from all the others on here.
Josh has every right to use Kickstarter, though he should be aware of how his celebrity affects the community at large. Maybe most of you think of this site as an "art store" like Etsy but I personally feel there is far more potential here in terms of building communities around artists versus just outright consumer consumption of pledge rewards. That is what attracted me in the first place to Kickstarter, the aspect of artists taking active roles in shaping their communities.
(Make no mistake, I want Kickstarter to succeed as much as Chris and Yancey and I have been spreading the word since day one! )
Although some comments are a bit acidic, again, it is great to have some discussion of Mali on Kickstarter!
Kudos to Deacon for raising the issue, and making more folks aware of Mali, the festival, his project, etc. And I think it's great that Pitchfork brought people over to Kickstarter. Kickstarter (and the artists it serves) will not succeed as some underground hidden thing - it NEEDS to go viral to succeed. You early adopters should be helping this happen, not snootily turning n00bs away. And why can't a "successful" band come to Kickstarter? This is a new project, not something with existing funding. Imagine if all the AC fans show up here, kick down $20 for Deacon, and $20 for someone else. Everyone wins, right?
Anyway, my passion for Mali is now on display, so some facts: (speaking as someone who has produced video projects & music projects in Mali)
* Visas are $131 each (http://www.maliembassy.us/index.php...)
* airfare to Bamako (capital of Mali) is currently around $1300-2000 depending on schedule/stopover (Morocco stopover longer, but cheaper. Paris is quick but expensive). Check Kayak/Vayama.
* If you're going to Festival in the Desert, you then have to fly to Timbuktu after landing in Bamako and then drive a long way (and rent the land rover/equivalent), or rent the vehicle in Bamako and drive north to the festival. You also have to hire a driver, translator/guide. While not super expensive, these expenses add up.
* Shots are wicked expensive - my first trip I had to get like 10 different shots. Rabies, Yellow Fever, various Hepatitis, etc etc. Then you have to buy Malarial medication as well.
* Mali is poor. Most people live on less than $1/day. However, finding western comfort (toilet paper, coke, a/c, etc) is expensive. So unless you can rough it, you'll be spending money traveling there.
* Artists are not getting well paid at the Festival in the Desert (this ain't Bonnaroo, the Warped Tour, or Bumbershoot folks). You have to take care of your own housing (a tent), food & water (bring with you), and the sound/light situation is . . . .spotty. . . This festival is all about vibe, experience, connections, culture, and MUSIC.
* This is west africa, where bargaining is key - there are no set prices for things. If you come rushed or hurried, you'll pay more. Guaranteed.
If you are interested in Mali, do go! The people are amazing, friendly and welcoming (provided you come correct). I'd also suggest checking out the Festival sur le Niger (http://www.festivalsegou.org/new/en.html) which happens in February 3-7, 2010 and is closer to western comforts (hotels, running water, toilets, etc) and easier/cheaper to get to from Bamako.
So go on Deacon, get to Mali and show these folks what it is to travel there! And what amazing music has been happening there for hundreds of years.
good luck bro!
Some of the discussion has been admittedly inflammatory, but I also think it has been informative. The success of any project on this site depends on creating the right amount of incentive to get users to support it. If this project does not get 100% funded, it will have little to do with the comments made here and more with how the project is structured as a whole. As of 12/10/2009 $5,000+ dollars - a significant amount - has been raised despite the acrimony. I personally think the goal is way too high and the incentives (book/drawings/photographs) a bit too misguided for me to support it. Given the circumstances, I think a big opportunity was missed to somehow involve the local artists in Mali to produce an offering that would have been truly unique, required a much lower financial goal, and would have helped stimulate the local economy in Mali rather than New York (I'm assuming that is where layout, etc would be done). I think any feedback - positive or negative - can only help inform future projects.
jens says: "then if that's the case, it seems he will donate $10,000 to the fest, which will go a long way in Mali. sounds good to me!"
And thus, if anything, having a higher goal amount is in itself an attempt to earn enough to have some to donate back to the festival.
When it comes down to it:
Would you like to help produce a record?
Yes, a record released by somebody of an almost-popular band called Animal Collective.
No, he's never released anything solo before.
Yes, he's signing it and giving it away to those who will pledge enough money.
What? That's exciting? Of course it is! Pledge your support!
Don't care too much for that? Well
Would you like to help produce a book including photographs and writings of the journey to said festival? No, it hasn't been done before, at all! There is no other full color art bound documentation of the Festival in the Desert at all!
Would you like to help give the festival in the desert some extra funds? Mali could certainly use the money and publicity! I know I had never even heard of Mali or this festival before reading about this on a certain forum.
So fans and art enthusiasts - please pledge if you care and whatever you can manage! I may be an Animal Collective geek but I want to own every pending product of this project not just to collect but to learn about this amazing festival I have heard so very little about. Plus, Gang Gang Dance will be there! Don't be dissing them either! Retina Riddim mother suckers!
(I cannot imagine how amazing going to this concert would be. If it wasn't so seemingly dangerous and downright expensive, I'd have already purchased my tickets and tour pass.)
-Just wish the people who disagree with the cause would stop flaming the crap out of it. Go do something else with your time. Maybe if more fans could contribute to the discussion as of late and not just the hostile comments there would be a little bit better of an atmosphere. People have differing opinions and artistic goals, creative desires, hopes, dreams, ambitions...so stop pissing on the shoes of the fans. Thanks.-
then if that's the case, it seems he will donate $10,000 to the fest, which will go a long way in Mali. sounds good to me!
I am shocked at the amount of negativity on here from so called "open minded people".
Deacon was invited to perform in Africa and essentially is making a record and visual document of his trip and offering it directly to people who may be fans of him, or just of the idea. Its removing the the middle man of a gallerist or record label and creating a direct artist / audience relationship, which is highly exciting!
If he were going to France, Los Angeles, or Tokyo to make a record and offered it this way, I highly doubt any of you would have issues, but you have designated this trip to be "paying for a vacation".
This festival is about raising awareness of the Touareg tribe, so by Deacon going there and then making music /book about it, is in fact helping create knowledge and awareness of the country and the tribe. He says he is not making a cent, and if he does- it goes to the festival...so he could be raising money for them as well. I don't understand why the people writing all the negativity on here only read what they want to read. look at it from other angles to be fair before you spew your vitriol, at least.
Thanks, Jens
Faiz's post is really worth reading.
I thought I'd put this up again. At least Deacon has raised some awareness about Mali (albeit in a hell of backwards fashion). I was not previously aware of the problems specific to that country. I don't mean to seem holier-than-thou, but as long as I've been devoting energy to complaining about Deacon's project, I'm donating $20 to the cause below. I won't get an autographed photo, but at least I'll have the effect cooling off some of this hot air.
Here's a link describing the work that Action Against Hunger does in Mali and the myriad of problems facing that country:
http://www.actionagainsthunger.org/where-we-work/mali
Here's a link to donate to Action Against Hunger:
https://www.actionagainsthunger.org/donate/donate-online
This is an interesting project - but it's a little strange that for $20 you would give away a signed picture. I'm a fan of the music - I really have no use for a signed photo. I would think you could give away a CD at that donation level - most of the other music projects on this site do this. I think if you got rid of the whole book thing altogether, it would be a much more feasible endeavor. I guess I know JD as a musician - I really have no interest in his drawings.
Good luck!
Hi,
My post was deleted. Fairly weak, considering:
a) I signed my name and contact to it and
b) I found out about the pledge through pitchfork, a site that built its reputation in part by being caustic towards artists and musicians.
I just hadn't added more to the discussion, since I was at work, teaching children.
Thanks, Yancey. Nice place you have here. Not quite as good as the point, but it's nice.
Glen, the “trolling” accusations are ridiculous because:
a) My criticisms were valid. You never bothered questioning my logic. Instead, I got youtube comment caliber responses from you. Great work.
b) By my count, there were a total of three (PJ, Liz and I) users who came over from Electrical. We in no way represent the 10,000 registered users there. Great work.
Please, tell me: what is the difference between people finding about this project from Pitchfork or people finding out about this from electrical? There's a public forum available to the kickstarter folks, so the public uses it. Had this not been on the front page of Pitchfork, this discussion wouldn't even be happening. They drew attention to it, and people responded. I'm not alone in my criticisms of the pledge, and I feel the point stands.
There are people over at EA who disagree with me, just as there are people over here who disagree with me. Doesn't bother me. It would be trolling had I written anonymously. I figured if Josh Dibb was going to use his real name, the least I could do was criticize it with my own. I don't think Josh needs to go on a humanitarian trip to Africa to make the trip valid. I also don't think he should stop making art, or that people should stop buying it. I in no way implied or intended that. I completely understand the point of making art for art's sake. Nobody cares about your stupid art project. You make it because it's meaningful to you, and if anyone else likes it, then that's great, too. It is however, absolutely selfish to ask for such an extravagant amount of money when the numbers do not add up.
I'm speaking from a point of experience. I understand the economics of touring in foreign countries and the amount of money it takes to produce records, and it didn't add up.
First example: I booked a U.S. tour for a band from Kenya in the states in 2006 or so. A five piece band, 3/5ths of which were Kenyan, were able to fly to the U.S., tour for two and a half weeks, live, eat, make another record, pay for gas, equipment rentals, lodging, visas, instrument rentals and other odd things for less than half of what this pledge costs. And that was coming here, where things are much more expensive than in Africa. This was for two and a half weeks, not a one off-festival. Hell, I had a band come from Ireland once that did 26 dates for about 3 grand. Probably six grand counting what they put into it.
Second example: I toured in Spain for several weeks. We covered flights, gas, lodging, van rental, equipment rental, food, equipment shipping, etc. for four people for less than half of what this pledge costs. You know how we managed to do this? By having jobs, saving up money and doing it. Sure, some money came in from shows and merch sales, but the majority of it was funded by us. The majority of most tours are funded by the artist. This is how it works. If you can't afford to go, you don't get to go. It's crass to expect handouts
Third example: I work part-time at an art-education non-profit. We write for grants and funding similar to what is being asked for here. You may peg this as hypocritical for us to take money to work on things. The difference being that we published two books, one cd, three websites, a half-dozen posters, two 'thousand dollar or so' art installations, an artist directory, recording classes for children, meetings for educators (including food), spray painting workshops and a couple artist commissions FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR for less than half of what this pledge is asking for. And some guy that used to be in a band that is popular is asking for 25k for a getaway weekend?
I teach math for a living, and spent three years booking international tours, so I'll end it with some approximate numbers for the expenses: (apologies to the “the problem with music” article from where this method was cribbed)
transportation to the desert site, book production costs, CD replication, packaging costs, shipping, layout designer costs
Flights at most: $1500 X 3 = $4500
Visas: $50X3 = $150
Shots: $15X3= $45
CD replication 1000 cds in 4-panel digipaks = $1000 shipped.
Van and Equipment rental for 3 days= $1000 (this is generous, considering there will most likely be a backline of amps at the festival)
Gas, Food: $300
layout designer costs: these are supposed to be handmade. $100 for supplies
photos: $0. he has a camera, right?
Book: let's say another $2000
that's about $9,000. it's a bit exorbitant, but let's say we even tack on another $6000 for expenses, not to mention that they'll get paid to play, and food and lodging at the festival is covered, they're still about $10,000 over budget.
For a three day festival.
pledge early, pledge often!
Thanks.
Faiz Razi
kerble@hotmail.com
So many people are being just plain rude. No one is badmouthing whatever projects you might have pledged to or MAYBE even created yourself. How is it fair for you to just go on insulting a site that you are a member of?
I am an unemployed college sophomore and perfectly happy to pledge 200 dollars. I am trying to spread the word so that more fans will see this, Pitchfork happened to be the perfect source for most Animal Collective fans to see this. The site can be a bit pretentious at times but they at least have recently respected the only indie bands I like. I know the rewards will be worth it, especially since I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Conrad Deacon (I caught Animal Collective for the first time this past May in DC) and the rewards offered sound quite sweet.
We're not deleting comments because we disagree with them. We have no problem with critical discussion. The issue is with inflammatory or abusive comments, as discussed in our <a href="http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines">community guidelines</a>. Kickstarter's a supportive community. If you don't like a project, don't back it. No need to be critical.
Am I the only one who feels a bit bummed out by all the backlash. I thought we were just going to help a musician we liked help share his music with other people. From his sentiment it seems like he wanted to make people feel as though they played an integral part in sharing that gift. Its weird that this whole thing spawned a heated discussion on morality, the fact of the matter is that every single one of us has spent money on themselves or others that could have gone to charity. I just feel bad for Deacon, it seems like all he wanted was to go on a cool trip to Africa and wanted to share that experience with his fans and he just ended up having his moral fiber picked apart by faceless commentators who seem so arrogantly self-assured that they feel the need to tell others who they should and should not give their money to. I say go for it Deacon.
Silencing respectful, thoughtful conversation does Kickstarter no favors.
Except for the comment where I wrote...
P.J. Craven wrote: "This is a boner worthy of the 'Stuff White People Like' files."
...I was indisputably respectful. Deleting my comments, particularly my last comment where I did not say anything remotely disrespectful, was completely inappropriate on your part. I suppose you'll delete this as well.
Hunter Keil Robinson wrote: "Most of the criticism of Josh’s project seems to rest on a knee-jerk reaction to the very fact that a member of a popular group is asking for financial assistance, rather than on well thought out arguments."
Claiming that our deleted arguments were thoughtless does not make them thoughtless. Claiming that we are "trolling" does not mean that we are trolling. I hope (and assume) that most people are able to see that.
I think its important that this discussion is taking place, and especially for this website which has only been around several months. I have been a member of this community from the day it launched and understand the needs of the community it is trying to serve. Unfortunately, I feel that this project has in fact, in some crucial way, undermined what Kickstarter.com is all about.
I did not know that Pitchfork had mentioned this project on their front page until reading the post from cwiz below. Curious, I went there and discovered something interesting.
http://pitchfork.com/news/37315-help-animal-collectives-josh-dibb-pay-for-a-trip-to-a-festival-africa/
"Full disclosure: Pitchfork publisher Chris Kaskie is an investor in Kickstarter"
Perhaps, this is the issue on some level. As "National Headquarters" said so eloquently below, this site is all about empowering the underdog artist by allowing them to build an audience and community of supporters...not about artists who already have legions of fans and supporters who would otherwise purchase merchandise, etc from the artist. So maybe Chris Kaskie meant to drive more of Pitchfork's audience towards Kickstarter since he has an investment in Kickstarter. Or maybe it is just circumstance. I don't know. In any event, all that has happened is that Kickstarter, which use to comfortably fly below the radar and thus really help the artists who needed it most, has now gone viral due to a well known artist being reported on by a well known music site trying to use this resource to fund a project that is unlike 99% percent of the projects found here. It has little to do with Africa or charities at that level and everything to do with exposure...which is what almost all of this community is trying to garner...and what Josh already has in spades. (if only all the other musicians trying to make records here ended up on the front page of Pitchfork, right?)
To make an analogy, Amanda Palmer has used Twitter along to get her fans to purchase merchandise from her without needing a resource such as Kickstarter.com and she made almost 20,000 on one night alone!
http://mikeking.berkleemusicblogs.com/2009/06/23/how-an-indie-musician-can-make-19000-in-10-hours-using-twitter/
So perhaps the fans of Josh and AC would be better served in this more direct manner, rather than the Kickstarter/Amazon approach. It seems that they are willing to give Josh hundreds of dollars anyway. The thousands of Pitchfork readers might agree too. Again, most of the artists trying to do projects here have maybe a few hundred people in terms of exposure for their project. Chris might have meant well but I think he has inadvertently created a "feedback loop of exposure" for Kickstarter. Hopefully, all the people that are now getting hip to this site won't ruin all the hard work that has gone into the past several months of helping the unknown artist find their audience via the web.
Yancey from Kickstarter here. We have <a href="http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines">community guidelines</a> about acceptable behavior, and we'll be removing comments that cross the line.
Discussion is great, but namecalling and abuse are not. Those comments will be deleted, and repeat abusers will be suspended. We'd prefer not to do that, so just be cool.
Most of the criticism of Josh’s project seems to rest on a knee-jerk reaction to the very fact that a member of a popular group is asking for financial assistance, rather than on well thought out arguments.
The claim that Josh is being “paid twice” for his performance basically amounts to calling him a liar, as he has already said that any money left over from this project will be donated to the festival. The only money he stands to make, unless he is lying (which we have no reason to think is the case), is whatever the festival is paying him for his performance (which he is already getting anyway). The money is funding his travel expenses and the production of unique art objects based on the experience.
The argument that the project is somehow immoral because this money would be better spent on charity is interesting, but not very compelling. This is an art project, not a humanitarian one. We don’t accost people on the street for wearing $500 boots when that money would have served a greater moral purpose by being spent on helping starving children, although that is true. We don’t show up to concerts and demand to know why people think it is morally acceptable to drop $25 on two hours of live entertainment rather than using that money to feed a child in the Philippines for a month (through Children International, for example).
This project isn’t meant to better the world in any but an artistic and cultural sense. It is certainly not hurting anyone; the only people who give to the project will be people like myself: relatively wealthy individuals who love Animal Collective’s music enough to support this project and will treasure the unique art objects that will result from Josh’s trip.
The strangest part about the criticism is that if Josh had just opened a webstore selling photos for $20, limited CDs for $150, and books for $200, pocketing all the profit, no one would criticize him. (I don't recall anyone freaking out at Panda Bear for selling hoodies for ~$100.) Somehow the fact that the money, in addition to paying for art objects, also helps pay for Josh's travels in a developing nation really irks people.
We love Deacon and Animal Collective. (We do!) But what makes Kickstarter admirable is its ability to empower the underdog--the emerging and/or independent artist who needs help harnessing the collective power of the online community to popularize and produce projects of even the smallest scale. We think many artists will find this project audacious because it is an internationally celebrated act asking the public to fund the production of a VERY large-scale project that would nonetheless be produced regardless of whether or not it is successfully funded on Kickstarter... The show WILL go on even without our support. Meanwhile, AC will have effectively upstaged the rest of the community. And by featuring this project on its front page, Kickstarter is, in a way, jeopardizing the successful fundraising of those projects whose appeal might have otherwise grown in AC's absence... This brings in to question why Kickstarter was founded in the first place, and for whom...?
Andre- you should also note that its states any money made over the 25,000 goal will be donated to thefestival- so if the 77,000 is reached- that's potentially $52,000 to the festival, and I heard the fest doesn't pay performers, its just an invitation to perform and be treated like a house guest while there...
The abuse is unfortunate. Maybe it's not your thing, but why come here and spew invective. Deacon is working on a project of fairly ambitious intent and scale, and people like and need art even if they happen to live in a poor country with lots of "problems".
just to be clear, this is what is being proposed:
1) the project is to back an artist to produce a "limited" supply of 100 digital photos, 200 digital audio CDs and 300 "art" bound book with photos, writing, drawings, etc. based upon the experience of attending a music festival in Mali, Africa
2) the artist is confirmed to be performing at the festival and will be compensated separately from the project.
3) $25,000 is the imagined bare minimum cost of producing the above. this will cover recording, photography, materials, airfare, transportation, food, and other various resources and expenses.
in return, only project backers who meet the criteria below will receive an award.
the rewards are:
A. $20 gets you a hand signed photo (20x100=$2000)*
B. $100 gets you a signed hand packed numbered CD (100x200=$20,000)*
C. $150 gets you a hand signed art book ($150x300=$45,000)*
D. $200 gets you both "B" and "C" ($200x50=$10,000)*
*this is the value if each reward reaches its limit as per the cost of the pledge
full amount value of rewards: $77,000
full amount of pledge goal: $25,000
overhead for pledge rewards: $52,000
minimum pledge: $1.00
Josh says exactly what hes doing. traveling to africa to play a festival and while there he will be recording and taking photos. if you wanna hear the record or see the photos donate the money. if he doesnt get it, i'm sure hes still going to play, since hes confirmed on the fest site.
i haven't read anywhere where he's trying to stop world hunger, get his "vacation" paid for, or misappropriate funds?
its simple to me, if you like his music and band, and want to contribute and be part of it, then you can. if you don't you, don't have too. its been done before, check out Christo and numerous installation artists that actually profit from selling physical objects to make their art happen. Josh says there is no profit in this for him...so this is for those who want to participate.
Here's a link describing the work that Action Against Hunger does in Mali and the myriad of problems facing that country:
http://www.actionagainsthunger.org/where-we-work/mali
Here's a link to donate to Action Against Hunger:
https://www.actionagainsthunger.org/donate/donate-online
This way, you know where your money is going.
just curious...not trying to stoke the flames below, but you are listed as a confirmed act on the bill along with Gang Gang Dance. is it possible to tag along with them and share costs? there are many acts that are to be confirmed and if this is a paying gig for you and others then I think it makes more sense.
in other words, if you are being compensated for confirming to perform (even before you knew how you would afford getting there) then cut your costs by trying to connect with GGD and seeing how they are doing it financially. there is also a forum on the site for alternative travel and tour companies. i suspect you will be performing there whether you reach your goal or not, right? or does your performance hinge on this project being successful? again, looking at the artists list shows many are TBC...yet you are not TBC'ed...so this project is only to cover expenses, right?
http://www.festival-au-desert.org/schedule-artistlist.html
(artists confirmed and to be confirmed)
http://www.festival-au-desert.org/tripbase.cfm
(tour packages)
http://www.festival-au-desert.org/board.cfm
(global "rideshare" to festival)
No ones making you donate, if you don't support the cause then don't.