Kickstarter

Creator Torolf - Alchemist of the Obsidian Order 3 days ago

It has now been 4 months and a day since Shrevas messaged me saying, "Refund incoming." No refund or other communication.

Creator Andrew Robertson on May 7

It's been 514 days since the Kickstarter completed. I backed at the Principality level, included extra to get two sets of dice. I've got the PDFs, but I believed in this project and I want this game in the flesh, to be tangible, and I backed it accordingly.

How many books were printed? How many books remain unshipped? What's going on?

Creator Andrew Munn on May 4

I would say start messaging Kickstarter about this project and possibly Amazon as the money went through them

Creator Robby Anderson on April 24

I don't think you're going to get anything by posting here. The creators are off doing other things and could care about you or anyone else. Basically, these folks stole your money, and there ain't nothing that's going to be done about it. Kickstarter & Amazon won't do anything at this point (a year+ since money was collected), and other industry folks have steadfastly defended and even employed these thieves, despite being fully aware of their reprehensible behavior.

Creator Brett Easterbrook on April 23

I'm in Australia and I backed at the hardcover level and the Seraphim level ($300). Reading the comments I'm assuming that you have run out of $$ for shipping as product hasn't been shipped overseas (even softcover by the looks..) is there any update on thise items? While its great that you have shipped some hoodies etc there are a lot of people that don't even have a book (me inc) I see that Noble Knight is currently selling it, I could order one today and get it faster that contributing to the kickstarter.. I would like an explanation of were we are at with producing and shipping hardcovers and my Seraphim level book please to people that backed the kickstarter.. just the honest truth, a couple of kickstarters have come out saying they have run out of $$ etc so it won't be the first.. what timetable do you have? I see that you are backing other kickstarters? what you should be doing is completeing this one and keep us up to date.. not too much to ask??

Creator Torolf - Alchemist of the Obsidian Order on April 18

Still have not received my refund. It has now been three months and a day since you said it was incoming.

Creator Rocha on March 31

Err here in Brazil I haven't received my copy yet...

Creator Lasse Minet Larsen on March 30

any update on when the books will ship?

Creator anderland on February 22

Did anyone in Germany get the game? Got nothing so far.
I feel like I wasted my money. Sad!

Hopefully, We/I will get the games or the money (back)

I know this is not how Kickstarter works, but I can hope, or?
The communication is disappointing.

This project seemed so cool. Hm.

Creator Brian Peters on February 22

Oh man, I completely forgot about the "Key of Hell and Death!" And my guess is the Sampat's have either forgotten about it as well, or are just hoping all the backers have. Hell, at this point it seems like they're hoping half the backers have just forgotten about the game entirely.

Creator Untitled on February 21

Hi,

As a european backer I'd really like to know if the game is due to arrive anytime soon or otherwise how long it could take...

Thx

Creator William Duryea on February 17

My copies finally arrived. I'm disappointed about the wait and the touch-and-go communication, but still looking forward to playing the game.

Creator Torolf - Alchemist of the Obsidian Order on February 16

It's been a month and a day since I was told "Refund incoming." Have not received refund or material.

Creator Michael Ostrokol on February 11

Really, I'd just like an update on two things: the high-tier backer rewards and the promised "Key of Hell and Death" supplement. At this point, it's almost immaterial that they sold books at this-or-that con, given all the other issues they've had with project management and fulfillment. Back in December, Shreyas asked us to keep him accountable for bringing this Kickstarter to a close, but we can't do that if he's unwilling to keep us informed of updates (or even really communicate at all).

At this point, I wish I hadn't backed this game.

Creator Brian Peters on February 10

I intend to continue watching this page, for my own personal reasons. Anyone else still paying attention, please post if there are any new developments on your end (i.e. actually received books or refunds, or other kinds of communication from the Sampats).

Creator Raphael on February 9

For the sake of future visitors, I'll keep posting here from time to time.

Keep my twelve bucks. I won't invest time in getting them back, it's not worth it. If I'll get a book at some future point in time, great. If not, I couldn't care less. How good can a game made by people who take up responsibility only to disregard it be, anyway?

Maybe it's time to make print of my own from the PDF(s).

Creator Luke Martinez on February 4

Time to cut bait and accept losses. Not only have the creators gone completely silent, but they now have no incentive to finish. They are both already working again in the industry, and no one cares about their lies and dishonesty here. Repeated protests about this project to the gaming public have been met with indifference or outright hostility. The truth is that since the Sampats are designers who are friends with other designers, no one is really going to side with us. They are going to dismiss it, then support the Sampats. I've accepted that as nobody backers, we can't win this. There will be no more refunds, no more shipments, no apologies and no consequences.

I wish everyone else the best of luck in future kickstarters. We lost, they won, and we got scammed. Ill try other kickstarters, but never one with these thieves involved. Live and learn.

Creator Brian Peters on February 3

This continues to be one of the most disappointing Kickstarter situations I've ever been a part of.

Creator Michael Ostrokol on February 1

I hate to sound like a broken record, but it's been over a month since the last update. Any news?

Creator Torolf - Alchemist of the Obsidian Order on January 27

Despite receiving a Kickstarter message Jan. 14th stating, "Refund incoming," I still have not received either product or refund.

Creator William Duryea on January 24

Still no books for me. I emailed Shreyas.

I'll let everyone know if I receive a response.

Creator wesley on January 24

Last comment I saw said that items were found in a garage and that they would be shipped after the rush of Christmas. Well that is a month ago and STILL NOTHING! So was that a lie? The actions speak louder then words, and your words are hollow. There is NO follow up and it seems these found items were never shipped. What is going on! Be honest

Creator Luke Martinez on January 24

Probably not while they are busy working on another RPG project.

Creator Michael Ostrokol on January 23

In his December 10th update, Shreyas estimated that the hardcovers and apparel should be shipping by the end of January, a date rapidly approaching. Any chance of a status update before the 31st?

Creator Luke Martinez on January 18

Deafening silence. Elizabeth is SO concerned about the damage she might be doing to someone else's project, but still says nothing. A five-minute post of contrition and explanation, versus a reputation that affects peers and colleagues, and she chooses the latter. How arrogant can you be?

Creator Brian Peters on January 16

I received my books and single set of dice (Principality level backer, here) quite some time ago, but I continue to watch this project's comments, and the rpg.net thread, because I feel a significant amount of emotional investment in it now, due in part to my negative experiences with Elizabeth Sampat prior to this kickstarter. In part, I keep hoping to see her step up, explain and apologize, and try to make things right. The longer this goes on, the more unlikely this seems, but I really do hope that it happens. I like her work, I want to also be able to respect her as a person and feel confident that if I choose to purchase her work in the future I'll actually receive what I paid for.

Creator João Flávio G. Falaschi on January 15

I said I'm not going to complain about it, but it does not mean I'm happy about. I am not. This is a project I regret of ever backing.

Creator João Mariano on January 15

Well here in Portugal I haven't received my copy. :( What about the rest of you?

Creator Torolf - Alchemist of the Obsidian Order on January 15

(This is a copy of the letter I wrote to the Cortex Kickstarter)

Rather than pledge a dollar and unpledge to register disapproval, something that might discredit the work of other worthy individuals. I've decided to write you guys a more private letter.

Your kickstarter looks good. It's normally exactly the sort of thing that I'd back, especially with the new digital rewards. However, the association and employment of Elizabeth Shoemaker Sampat precludes me from it.

Let me use an absurd example to illustrate why. Let's posit an alternate universe in which Hitler is the penultimate RPG designer. Past history aside, the quality of his work is so good you feel that it can only help the project. Let us further assume for the sake of the discussion that you are correct, and that Hitler's contribution makes a major contribution artistically, financially and further assume that nothing unethical or immoral happens directly or indirectly because of it. Even knowing all of this, would you hire Hitler?

Now I don't know either of the Sampats personally, but I assume that they are a very far cry from Hitler. In fact, the very worst I can say about them is that their past business dealings (not limited only to their They Became Flesh kickstarter) reveal a lack of responsibility and indifference (at best) towards their fans and customers.

In another line of work that might be okay. In RPG's it doesn't fly.

Many, if not most gamers have long experience with bullying, marginalization and social isolation. RPG designers, while no more immune to human faults than anyone else, are a sort of authority figure for the subculture. The Sampats' exploitation of their fans and customers runs directly counter to the many long-held values of tabletop gamers, such as inclusion, equality and, above all, justice.

Yes, justice. It may not be the comic-book justice of Superman, Spiderman or Batman, but it is the everyday justice of a man's word being his bond. It is the everyday justice of not short-changing the bread when a customer buys and expects a dozen loaves. It is the everyday justice so essential for healthy relationships. And that, in the end, is why I can not support your Kickstarter.

It might be different if they had acknowledged that they had done wrong (which to my knowledge they have not), and if they had resolved to change (which again, they have not).

RPG's, in the end, are all about relationships. The Sampats have spat upon those who would have and should have supported them. I don't want any part of a relationship like that.

Creator Andrew Robertson on January 15

There are 276 backers. 233 backed at a level that included a physical book. Can you tell us how many of the 233 have been shipped? Can you tell us if those who have had the copies shipped to them are meant to have been notified that it has shipped? I know international postage isn't the speediest process, but I'd like to know if I'm waiting for something that's in transit or for something that's not yet sent.

Creator Robby Anderson on January 15

Elizabeth, I find it classless but completely in character that your first message on this project in a blue moon comes, not to address any backer problems, but in response to defend your _next_ project. How many people have you fleeced so far?

I know I'll miss out. I love Leverage and Marvel. But I have a hard time standing by and watching them employ a know thief and liar in such a prominent role and still feel good about supporting that project. That's just me. YMMV.

Creator Luke Martinez on January 15

Cortex+ is great, MWP is great, Cam is great.

But it still leaves an issue. During this whole, long, interminable slog to get proper treatment from the creators, Elizabeth has STILL not addressed the selling books at GenCon thing. Which was promised months ago. And has remained silent on all the other issues. So, we have to think: this person who has either lied or misled us, or ignored us, or at least acted uncharitably with NO APOLOGY or NO EXPLANATION is now involved in a major project. Should we support such a person who had so little regard for us? A person who is taking new jobs but cannot spare a minute to apologize or explain herself?

It is an issue, believe me. It'd be great to get her explanation and her apology for what has happened here. If that were to happen, I'd consider this whole thing closed and the Cortex+ kickstarter I would have no problems backing.

Creator Robby Anderson on January 14

Elizabeth Sampat was just announced as working on the Cortex+ project. I just registered my disapproval of that association. You might consider pledging $1, posting, then unpledging.

Link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1116133034/margaret-weis-productions-cortex-plus-hackers-guid/posts

Creator João Flávio G. Falaschi on January 13

Funny... I requested a refund, but when I came home today I found my books and dice waiting for me. Ok, finally, I'm not going to complain about it. Hope the same happens to all of you.

Creator Luke Martinez on January 13

I really suggest backers post to this thread on RPGNEt:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php…

Many people are fast to either defend the TBF project or dismiss complaints from backers, and only by explaining to them what happened can we create pressure to get action, or at least keep their reputation attached to this project.

Creator Torolf - Alchemist of the Obsidian Order on January 12

Well, on December 27th, they requested paypal information from me via Kickstarter message. I responded the same day, and then nothing ever since.

Creator Luke Martinez on January 11

I'm shocked that they haven't followed through on ANYTHING. Not really, but it still sucks.

Creator Brian Peters on January 11

So has anyone who requested a refund even been contacted?

Creator João Flávio G. Falaschi on January 10

Any news here? Something happening? What about our refunds?

Creator Luke Martinez on December 29

I don't know if I would call them thieves, because thieving requires intent. I think they are bad business people, something made much, much worse by their dishonesty and lack of communication, and their disrespect towards the backers.

I agree, at least, that any future projects should definitely be handled on the publishing side by anyone else. I certainly won't back it after this fiasco, but I can't see anyone giving them another go without the promise of an outside authority to make it work.

Creator Brian Peters on December 27

Well, to be fair, *as a designer* she is pretty great, so is Shreyas. They just seem to be absolutely terrible at "customer service." I still give them the benefit of the doubt to the extant that I don't believe they are "thieves." I doubt there was any intention to bilk backers of their money. It seems more likely that, for example, they ran out of money faster than expected, and delayed because they weren't able to get all the books and rewards produced when they'd intended to.

It seems like Elizabeth might benefit from doing something like Ralph Mazza did with the kickstarter for Blood Red Sands (thought that project is also running late...), and have somebody else handle the publishing side of things for her work... she doesn't seem to handle those parts very well, to put it mildly. Or maybe she should consider only selling her work in electronic format, or doing physical versions through a POD company like Lulu. Let someone who is actually interested in fulfillment and capable of doing it reasonably well handle that stuff.

Creator Luke Martinez on December 26

Matt, it is not a rumor. As I said, it was told to me directly by someone who experienced it. People can call it a rumor if they like, but I think it is odd to want to give dishonest people the benefit of the doubt at this juncture.

And it is absolutely relevant. It underscores the despicable conduct of the creators, and the way they have not only mistreated the customers, but done a disservice to gamers in general by acting like this. Between the "rumor" and this project, I am frankly surprised Elizabeth keeps getting held up as some kind of exemplar of female game designers, or game designers at all. And I think these things go together.

I realize, Matt, that you want to keep this civil and fair, and I am sympathetic to that. But I think these are connected things, and I think they should be discussed.

Creator Matthew McFarland on December 26

No, Robby, I meant exactly what I said. I think that the creators should absolutely be taken to task for what was promised and what they have or have not delivered. However, "somebody told me that Elizabeth said mean things at GenCon" is not only an unsubstantiated rumor, but it isn't even remotely relevant to this issue.

Creator João Flávio G. Falaschi on December 25

Good news Leo, let's hope more is coming for the rest of us.

Creator Leo Lalande on December 24

I got a most wonderful Christmas gift in my mailbox today; my TBF rewards finally arrived. At the least, I'm satisfied that I've got my backer rewards, and can move forward from this unfortunate situation.