Tunji Dada Ltd on July 8, 2010

Incredibly insightful Jasmine! Spreading the word...

Greg Bauer on July 5, 2010

This sounds like a fascinating topic! I hope you get your funding and make your doc!

Jose Conde on June 26, 2010

Gypsy Caravan is a movie that transports you into the life and customs of the Roma directly and first hand. It is a film that needs to be seen that will no doubt spark a debate especially amongst those who would rather live in the darkness of the stereotypes they hide behind. Confronting your fears is the first step in finding harmony.

Peter on June 21, 2010

Good luck with the project!

Racism is deeply rooted in Hungary. Even potatoes are racist, because they don't grow in the Gypsies' "garden" so the Gypsy "farmers" have no choice, but to take potatoes from the Hungarian farmers's garden. Hope your movie helps potatoes to realise that racism is a crime and they learn to grow by themselves in the Gypsies garden without the need to plant them, hoe them, spray them etc.

John Henderson on June 21, 2010

I’ve gained something personally from the Roma I know. Friendship, laughter, insight into a culture quite different from my own, memorable experiences, kindness. And much more. If all these wonderful things are mine because I am “blind” or “naive,” then I praise blindness and naiveté, as it seems they have little downside. Illumination, judging from Mr. Donát’s most recent missive, would appear to lead inextricably to mistrust, rage and hate.

In terms of ancestry and actual fact, I am neither Hungarian nor Roma. I have no bias towards or against either people. I have a deep admiration for both. Yet both - like all peoples - have their flaws.

For instance, the Roma. Criminality is a problem among the Roma - a disproportionate percentage of Roma end up in prison. Quite a lot of money has been spent to integrate the Roma into the “mainstream” of society, with little or no visible success. Many Roma don’t work. Many Roma have problems with alcohol. Many Roma are illiterate. Health problems are also unusually high, and the life expectancy of Roma is nearly always much lower than that of non-Roma within the same country.

As problems go, that’s a long and heady list. You can look at this list and take the attitude of Mr. Donát, which I will gently characterize as “dismissive” of the Roma. Or you can ask yourself, why do these problems exist with Hungary’s Romani population?

Racism is such that its practitioners will go to extreme lengths to avoid answering the question of “why” those they despise do the things they do or act the way they act. That’s because of the unfortunate death of their old, reliable friend: the belief in the biological inferiority of certain peoples. It just doesn’t sway many people these days; it’s been too substantially discredited. So racists are left with nothing, for racism is built on the solid belief that all members of a hated people are somehow the same, and intractably so. Asking “why” only serves to put cracks in this belief.

You’ll notice that Mr. Donát neither asks nor addresses the “why” of his beliefs. He avoids direct dialogue, and goes so far as to employ poor tactics of debate. He writes “I believe in my truth, and you believe in yours.” Think about that for a second! It’s both a refusal to use logic to examine beliefs, and an attempt - however transparent - to place his weird and illogical bias on an equal footing with a clearly articulated and examined conclusion. (If anyone wants some answers to the “why” of these problems, I’ll write another post articulating some of the reasons I’ve uncovered. But if I did that here, this post would be a million miles long!)

He writes “Make your film, it doesn't count. You earn some money, some fame, but that's all. There was a thousand more production like that, and nothing changed in the direction you want. But every film added a small amount of rage to the feelings of the 91% of Hungarians.”

According to the filmmakers: “Our aim is to use film to challenge "Gypsy" stereotypes – stereotypes so dangerous that there are frequent attacks on Roma (“Gypsies”) purely due to their race.”

Connect the two, and what Mr. Donát is saying is that “a film whose aim is to challenge “Gypsy” stereotypes adds a small amount of rage to the feelings of 91% of Hungarians.” How does one interpret this other than to think that these "91% of Hungarians" are actually threatened by this film; that perhaps they know that their beliefs are not onyl racist, but poorly-supported - like Mr. Donát’s - by anything beyond carefully chosen anecdotes? Or that when the “why” of their beliefs begins to be debated publicly, those beliefs will look as skimpy as they are?

I say this in all sincerity - I *thank* Mr. Donát. I am grateful to him. For he has done a fabulous job of demonstrating the genius of the “Gypsy Caravan” project, by showing just how flimsy, shallow and unsupportable anti-Roma sentiment really is. His comments have added to my belief that this project is one which can achieve its aim, because such prejudice and hatred tend to crumble in the sunlight, and this film shines brightly.

After my first post, I pledged $100. I am now adding $150 to that amount. Please accept it in the name of Mr. János Donát.

Donát János on June 20, 2010

OK, I can not change your way of thinking. I believe in my truth, and you believe in yours.

Make your film, it doesn't count. You earn some money, some fame, but that's all. There was a thousand more production like that, and nothing changed in the direction you want. But every film added a small amount of rage to the feelings of the 91% of Hungarians.

You want to help solving the conflicts between gypsies and non gypsies?
Then do not make a film about the gypsies, but make a film FOR them!

Make a film, that tells them, they already received all the help, that the majority could given, and now comes their turn.
Make a film, that tells them, to have just many children, they could raise up in good conditions.
Make a film, that tells them, that stealing is crime, even committed by the poor.
Make a film, that tells them, the importance of honesty, labour, tolerance(!), over money, gold, cars and all other material thing.
Make a film, that tells them, that every act has its consequence, even for gypsies.

If you believe me not, then listen to the words of a gypsy leader ("Vajda"), Attila Lakatos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch... (in Hungarian)

"There are villages, where the non gypsies, can not go to church, only when the old uncle goes in the morning, and the aunt goes in the afternoon - because if they leave their houses, [the gypsies] break in"

"They say, there is no "gypsycrime". But if, from 10 perpetrators, 10 are gypsies, from 20 are 20, then what is it?"

"The teacher give a failing grade to the child, who goes home: "dad, I got a D". The father goes in, beat the teacher, because the teacher is racist, but in the last six month, they did not asked his child, where he/she was going to school, where the child were."

"The teacher is racist; If the doctor don't cure me out of cancer, then the doctor is racist. In the "obligatory insurance" is that it is obligatory - the gypsies don't need it too. The policeman is racist - well, everyone is racist in this country?"

I was not born to racist, I never was a skinhead or so, I never assaulted anybody, but I grew up in a village, where the population was 40%+ gypsies. I was beaten in the school by gypsies, my father was beaten by gypsies, our house was robbed by gypsies, our garden was set on fire by gypsies, our fruits/greens was stolen by gypsies, every year. And not because we have provoked them, or we were not tolerant enough. And our case is not special - this things are everywhere in the villages, where gypsies live.

In our neighbours, there are 8 children. Till now, all of them were committed some crime. None of them has a job, but they managed to get an Audi (this is a status symbol to them), and their mother is every day in the tavern. Their father died in an accident: a tree was fallen upon he, when he was stealing from the forest.

There are, about 7-8% gypsies in Hungary, but in the jails, 70+%. (This is not official statistic, because it is forbidden to record, the ethnic origin in Hungary, but I have a friend in the police, who sees the reports, and from the surnames, you can tell it)

Oh, and at last. About the 8 gypsy that killed in the recent years. The project creators forgot to mention, that not all were racist motivated, and some were committed by gypsies.
Like the hand grenade case at Pécs, where 2 people were killed. The murder's name was Jenő Bogdán, and he was a member of a Gypsy Minority Self-government in a village near Pécs...but, like many times before, the media immediately, called this case a racist motivated one, and "jumped to the throat" of the Hungarians...and when the murders ethnic origin had been cleared up, nobody asked forgiveness, and up to the present, people often count this in the racist motivated cases.

You could think I am a racist, or skinhead, or just a moron, or anything. I don't care :) Really :)
But my way of thinking is a very good reflection of the majority. All films like this, will be just another thorn, put under our nails. I think you are all blind, or are terribly naive, or have a good reason to escalate the ethnic conflicts. Also I presume, you think the same about me :)

But think again the words of a gypsy, about the facts:
"They say, there is no "gypsycrime". But if, from 10 perpetrators, 10 are gypsies, from 20 are 20, then what is it?"

Hank Cherry on June 19, 2010

I think this is an incredible and strong project. That it invokes such passionate responses means you are on the right path. Thanks for doing this.

John Henderson on June 18, 2010

Mr. Donát's post neglects many truths, and perpetuates misunderstandings.

1) Hungarian police dismiss crimes against Roma as "not worth their time." They do so quite often, and publicly. So Mr. Donát's refutation of this fact seems a bit odd.

2) Officials in Hungary did almost nothing as a number of Roma were viciously murdered. In fact, their inaction - as well as the crimes - were so scandalous that it made headlines around the world. This was an embarrassment for Hungary, and hefty evidence of the willful avoidance of human rights pledges it made to the EU. That's the reason a reward was ultimately offered - to counteract Hungary's total failure in handling the issue early on.

3) Mr. Donát writes: "There was a poll, that questioned the people about, "Do you think that the expression "romacrimes" ("cigánybűnözés" in hungarian), covers an existing phenomenon?" The 91% of the people answered yes... Do you think, that 91 percent of hungary is racist, without any reason?"

That's a tough one to answer. It's possible, for instance, that a majority of Hungarians are racist. Most Hungarians do not deal with huge numbers of Roma, who often keep to their own villages and neighborhoods. I've known Hungarians who maintain that they've never directly spoken to a Romani person - all the while spouting pretty racist views about the Roma. That's one reason I'm supporting the filmmakers here. The movie - and their willingness to 'take it to the people' - is a great way to foster cross-cultural communication. More to the point, did this same poll ask people if they thought that the term "magyarbűnözés" ("Hungarian crime") covers and existing phenomenon? People in all cultures commit crimes. If Mr. Donát believes that the Roma are more criminal than Hungarians in the same socioeconomic class, he's probably wrong. The figures look to be about the same. In fact, the Minister of the Interior in Romania did a study which showed the percentage of crime committed by that country's Roma to be about 11%. This is the same percentage of the Romanian population that is Romani. It's unlikely things are different in Hungary.

4) As Mr. Donát's "evidence" is nothing more than entirely anecdotal, allow me to add some of my own anecdotal evidence. I'm American, but I have spent much of the past five years in Hungary and Romania. I speak both Hungarian and Romanian. I've encountered many Roma, I've seen many Romani settlements and villages. I can now proudly count several Roma as my friends. I have never encountered any "criminal" behavior among them, short of some begging (which isn't actual criminal . . . and I've encountered non-Roma people begging, too.) What I have experienced includes a Roma family who laughed at my then-poor Romanian - I was buying sunflower seeds from then at a roadside stall. I explained that I was from America. They immediately "closed shop" so that they could spend the next couple of hours teaching me Romanian basics, telling me jokes and explaining both Romani and Romanian culture. Amazingly warm and hospitable people. On another occasion, I went along with some local college students to a Romani settlement located on a trash dump. The poverty was incredible. We spent time with the kids there, teaching them to draw. By evening time, the adults of the community gathered to offer us a big meal and a concert by musicians in the community, as means of saying thanks. I've hitchhiked and been given rides by Roma, who've refused my offers of money and who've gone out of their way to get me to one place or another. I've found that the generosity and kindness of the Roma I've met to be astonishing. Interestingly, when people have chided me for spending time with these "criminals," I've almost invariably found that my actual knowledge of Romani culture and history was much greater than that of the locals. Romanians generally don't know that in much of their country, the Roma were enslaved until about 150 years ago. Hungarians tend not to know that the Roma there were forced to abandon their own language, and they often had children taken away to be raised by Magyars, for no reason other than to "break" Romani culture. In America, most people understand that the legacy of our own enslavement of our African-descended population is profound and lasts through generations. This is not an idea widely accepted in Hungary or Romania, and it's especially hard to make its existence understood in places where the historical oppression of Roma is not known.

I understand the "victim" mentality of Hungarians, who lost two-thirds of their country and who suffered under dictatorship and all sorts of miseries. And you know, I really love Hungarians, the language, the culture, food, music, literature, everything. That's why I spend time there. But the victim mentality can function as a kind of karma. The Roma have caused astonishingly little of Hungary's bad times. I know it must be easier to deal with a "real" and identifiable enemy than larger and more abstract forces. But I can't help but think that Hungary's problems won't go away until they first confront some of their own negative prejudices and create a truly free, safe and opportunity-laden country for all its citizens, Magyar or not.

In any case, thank you Mr. Donát, as you have made me think about this issue to the extent that I want to be a part of backing this project. Look for my name on the list of donors!

Nidhi Trehan on June 17, 2010

Sadly, Janos Donat's comments reflect the reaction of many Hungarians to what is happening in their country today. There was a time in Hungary when there was much more sympathy and solidarity demonstrated towards Romani communities. One can read this in the writings and novels of Pulitzer-prize winner Zsolt Csalog and Hungarian MP and activist Ottilia Solt (Meltosagot Mindenkinek - Dignity for All), both of whom are no longer with us.
The situation of increasing poverty and alleged higher incidence of crime amongst Roma (is it any higher amongst non-Roma whose incomes are comparable?) is with us because of centuries of oppression and extreme marginalization, and this will not be remedied in several decades, regardless of the political persuasion of the government.

The historic debt that Europe owes to its Romani communities, the historic debt that Hungary owes to its Roma, is yet to be acknowledged. Contributions in the way of economic (building railroads, bridges and homes), cultural (music, dance, and folk knowledge such as that in the field of medicine/health), and yes, political (though Romani individuals have served honorably in various armies across Europe, they have for generations eschewed the kind of nationalism and national identity formations which have torn Europe apart by producing violent outcomes - Roma are still living examples of the existence of multiple identities in European states which have had great difficulties with this concept and have generally sought to homogenize cultures).

This is not to say that all Roma are perfect, of course, there are Romani individuals engaged in crime (though the incidence of white collar crimes are far less amongst Roma). Mr. Donat almost comes across as an apologist for the violent murders of Hungarian Romani families such as the Csorbas, and curiously, many of these Romani individuals targeted were well integrated and employed. Mr. Donat emphasizes the climate of fear on the part of non-Roma in Hungary, but just imagine if your children were faced with death at the hands of vigilantes throwing Molotov cocktails in your house?

What is needed in this rarefied and intolerant climate is understanding and reconciliation, not the all-too-common defensiveness displayed by many in the majority. The films made by Jasmine Dellal and her colleagues are a good step in the right direction as they humanize Roma, rather than dehumanizing them – as has been the case for generations in Europe.

hamis_74 on June 17, 2010

You mention on the project home that Hungary has a "newly elected extreme right government [that] ran on an anti-Roma platform". Hungary indeed has such a party (Jobbik) in parliament, but not in government, which is comprised of the center-right Fidesz party, which has three Roma MPs and one Roma MEP (the Politics Can Be Different green-liberal party has one Roma MP, while the Socialists have none).

You might want to correct this, for just as much as Roma do not like being incorrectly portrayed, Hungarians aren't appreciative of it either.